most bugs worked out but i'm not impressed with the performance

my missing problem after 5000+rpms turned out to be spark blowout. I regapped the plugs and all is well now. No doubt the car is faster than N/A but i dont see this thing turning much more than maybe 112mph traps are so. 4th gear pulls just like it did when it was N/A. I've always had problems with the car when it was N/A, i changed injectors, maf, fuel pump, and everything i can think of and still it would run on most outings 103-105mph. in the dead heat of july here in louisiana it did run 108mph but that only happend that one particular day. I'm having to kill the car to get a 12 out of it.

I'm running:
60379 heads
rpm intake
tfs stage 1 w/ 1.7s
shorty headers
o/r exhaust
77mm pro-m maf
70mm tb
single belt novi w/ 2.75 pulley, powerpipe, stock crank pulley
3.73s
5-speed
30lb. injectors
3300lbs. with me in it.
6:1 fmu
24 degrees total timing

I'm at the end of my rope with this car, pretty much to the point that i lost intrest in it... i'm going to the track saturday and if it doesn't run at least 115mph it may take me over the edge.

any suggestions?

Take it to the dyno and get a chip burned for it.

i personally dont believe i should need a chip for the basic setup i have and what i'm looking to get out of it. Maybe if i was trying to get 10s are was running 42lb. injectors or a 347 are something. That and i'm not in the position at this time to spend $500 on a dyno and chip.

Am i asking to much out of it? i think 115mph is on the low side of what it should run.

If you can't afford to do eec tuning at your power level, but you want to tune it closer to the edge, then you have to find a way to beg borrow or steal access to a wideband O2 meter, and adjust your FMU's response curve with an air bleeder valve, because your a/f ratio is probably dipping into the low 10:1 range on the top end, leaving a good 40hp on the table, which might get you the extra 3-4 mph you are looking for. I know plenty of guys who used a simple aquarium air line valve to bleed air off the FMU, you don't need the fancy $35 Vortech air bleeder.

Another alternative to the wideband O2 is an exhaust temp gauge setup, shoot for exhaust temps in the 1250 to 1300 range.

As for performance expectations, 105 mph 1/4 mile from the Edelbrock Performer heads and intake is right on target, Edelbrock says you should expect an even 300hp from your parts combination, which at 3300 weight is a 12.95 @ 105 run under *ideal* conditions. Figuring conservatively, 12hp/# boost, and maybe 8 psi? That accounts for right around 390-400hp, which by most estimates should get you an 11.8 at 115 mph run under *ideal* conditions.

Were you really expecting a whole lot more out of this parts combo than this? The only place I see you gaining much in the hardware department is in swapping to a bigger duration cam, and/or swapping out the intake manifold for something a little bigger. You might consider throwing on a little bit bigger crank pulley too, probably the best banmg for the buck mod you could do at this point.

good idea on the bleeder valve on the fmu. I'm familiar with the EGT guage since i was running one on my DSM and that may not be a bad idea.

Would you consider running the car with no fmu?? say it does have 390-400, would 30lbers be enough?

oh and btw i did expect more out of it... i was hoping for 117-119mph (to keep up with 03-04 cobras, lol) with the 2.75" and powerpipe. I will get a f150 pulley very soon too!! It ran 111mph on a sn92 2hrs after i installed it untunned with dryer hose for a inlet tube lol. I have no idea how much boost it was putting out though.

Either way i'll know what it runs tomorrow and how much boost it puts out tonight... i just need to know if i should try running without the fmu. if i just disconnect the vacuum line to the fmu that essentially eliminates it right?? i shouldn't have to disconnect everything??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5.0 Hatch

good idea on the bleeder valve on the fmu. I'm familiar with the EGT guage since i was running one on my DSM and that may not be a bad idea.

Would you consider running the car with no fmu?? say it does have 390-400, would 30lbers be enough?

oh and btw i did expect more out of it... i was hoping for 117-119mph (to keep up with 03-04 cobras, lol) with the 2.75" and powerpipe. I will get a f150 pulley very soon too!! It ran 111mph on a sn92 2hrs after i installed it untunned with dryer hose for a inlet tube lol. I have no idea how much boost it was putting out though.

Either way i'll know what it runs tomorrow and how much boost it puts out tonight... i just need to know if i should try running without the fmu. if i just disconnect the vacuum line to the fmu that essentially eliminates it right?? i shouldn't have to disconnect everything??

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When I first put my Real Street car together, all it had was a stock short block, TFS TW Heads out of the box, TFS Street heat intake out of the box, 42# injectors, 3.73 gears, 1 5/8" short headers, Tremec TKO, UPR rear suspension, 26X10 slicks, and a P1SC that made 10#'s of boost at 6300. The car was was tuned by Greg Banish from Livernois and it went 11.2@122 weighing 3300 with me in it.

Wow thats impressive!!! sounds alot like my car.... i'm running a tremec, upr rear suspension and 26" et streets also. any idea on how much power he was able to get out of it with a tune?

I would not run your combo on the 30s until you can closely monitor the mixture in some manner, whether EGT or O2 (preferably both).

The 30s at stock pressure and stock EEC tune will be real close to maxed out as you approach 375-400hp, depending on how efficient your engine runs. 30s will adequately support 425 hp at 95% DC, .52 bsfc, but being boosted I'd play it safe and look at it more conservatively, as such they would support 360hp at 80% DC, .57 bsfc.

So, if you want to keep the 30s and go without teh FMU, you are back to tuning the EEC: you could bump up the fuel pressure to 60 psi and tell the computer you have 38# injectors installed, which works out to power capacity of 425hp @ 80% DC, 506hp @ 95% DC, both at .57 bsfc. Or keeping the FMU you should adjust your air bleeder valve so the FMU maxes out pressure at 60 psi rather than spiking it all the way up to 80+ psi.

Your Pro-M should meter incoming air accurately well into the mid to upper 400s so that should not be a problem.

Also, make sure your belt isn't slipping at all, try some belt dressing just to make sure. IIRC some of the guys on this forum with similar combos have gone a little quicker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5.0 Hatch

Wow thats impressive!!! sounds alot like my car.... i'm running a tremec, upr rear suspension and 26" et streets also. any idea on how much power he was able to get out of it with a tune?

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It made around 375 rwhp on a Mustang dyno so that would be over 400 rwhp on a Dynojet.

thanks for the explanation. i'm not try running without the fmu for sure now. It looks like i need to get it on a dyno when i come across some extra dough. I'll buy some belt dressing tonight, is there a name for that stuff are do i just ask for belt dressing at the parts store?? I never thought about my belt slipping but that could be a very good reason why it isn't performing very well. i would think i would smell that though. anyway since i'm on the very edge of my 30lb injectors with no fmu i think i'll try a 3:1 disc in my fmu and see how that helps.

also my plugs and they are rich from what i can tell. the ceramic is white but all around the edge of the plug and deep inside is black black black. the strap across teh top is nice and tan though.

That 3:1 disc sounds like a good plan for now, I figured all along you were running too rich with the 6:1 in there. And just ask for 'belt dressing' at the store, it's usually in a 4oz spray bomb can.

cool... thanks for the help.... i'll post my times when i get back from the track tomorrow.

Well i ended up having to work late today... But i still made it to the track. I had to stop on the way back so i was on street tires. Unfortunately i got kicked out the first pass for no helmet. I gotta say it is a chore to drive this thing down the track with street tires. I lowered the timing to 20 degrees just to make sure i wouldn't blow a gasket and also the car runs horribly rich with the fmu so i took it off. I know i was pushing my luck with it but it made the pass without a problem and left it at that. Details of the pass are: smoked the tires down in 1st gear even though i just eased on the gas, 2nd gear was pretty much a repeat of first, 3rd wheel hopped a bit throughout the gear and 4th went well. Only problem is now it started missing bad again after 5000rpms so i had to shift before that. must not be plug gap.

60ft-2.49 (lol, i used to cut 1.9s on those street tires in N/A form)
1/8- 9.29
1/4-13.7@112.8mph

I figured with my slicks and 24 degrees of timing it would have went low 12s@ 115mph or so... sound right?

Yeah, that sounds about right. Mine has gone 12.5's at 113 with no custom tune on it. Just put it together in the garage and went to the track. I have a renegade crank pulley, but haven't put it on yet. I am kind of hoping for 120 mph trap speeds with the pulley and possibly a custom tune.

One word for you.....IGNITION!! Do yourself a favor and get a good one.