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Hey guys,
OK, I picked up this SN89 yesterday. I showed it to my brother this morning, and when he went to pick it up to take a closer look at it, he grabbed it by the pulley and the pulley came off in his hands. No problem, I put the pulley back on the output shaft, and HAND TIGHTENED the three allen-head bolts that hold it in place.
NOW I CAN'T GET THE STUPID THING OFF!!!
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
This picture shows my pulley with plastic cover covering the large bolt that holt the pulley.
The pulley and shaft use 2 keys to keep tight, normally you use a puller to get the pulley of.
Three allen head bolts to hold on the front pulley?
Sorry Lost........
Hi speedystang.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedytang
I'm not surpirsed at your response. The pulley I have is quite different from the one pictured in Pavement Pounder's post. There is no cap and no threaded bolt hole coming out of the center of it. There are six holes around the center hub, three of which are tapped for these allen head bolts (I don't know what the other three are for). When it was off, I looked inside the other end and it looked like it had two half-round shims inside but I couldn't figure out how they held on to the shaft. Like I said, I only put the bolts on finger tight because I knew I'd be removing the pulley anyway. But now with the bolts removed the stupid pulley won't come off!
I will try to take some pics in a while and post them. That will give you a much better idea.
Stay tuned.
That does not sound right??? I am curious to see pic's of this setup.
Hi again guys.
OK, here's the pics:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2.../IMAG00002.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2.../IMAG00003.jpg
I've never seen a setup like this before, and I'm stumped. I tried again earlier to take it off, but it won't budge. I don't want to put too much force on it for fear of doing damage so I'll wait to hear everyone's feedback. To be honest, I have no idea that this is even the correct pulley for the system.
Thanks again guys!
This is a split hub pulley from blowerworks (old carroll supercharging).
When you tighten the bolts (in the picture) it forces the split hub to tighten on the shaft.
You need to full loosen the three allen heads, than find three bolts that thread into the "unused" holes in the pulley.
Tightening these three (new) bolts will pull push the split hub out of the pulley and release the assembly from the shaft.
To re-install, slide assembly onto the shaft and tighten the three original screws evenly to sqeeze the split hub.
AWESOME!!! Thanks SuperL98!Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperL98
Can I use the three bolts that I already have to split the hub, or are the ones that go into the other three holes a different size?
So, does this mean that I actually have one of the original Carroll Supercharging kits? I've contacted Greg at Blower Works about an installation guide ($25). He said that he put more "goodies" in his kits than what he put into the ones sold by Paxton. He said that his installation guide lists all the goodies so that I will be able to tell if I have a genuine Carroll kit or not.
Thanks again SuperL98!
Interesting pulley but not sure why they(Carroll) went to all that trouble for a pulley other than making sure they limited your pulley size choices.
The Bad News - the mounting allen heads are smaller.
The Good News - the extracting holes are 1/4 x 20's and sould be easy to find.
Most of what Blowerworks (Carroll) sells, he list in his catalog.
Losts of other good stuff 2, in pdf format.
Under downloads here.
The pulleys are in there to.
http://www.carrollsupercharging.com/
I've seen both the Carroll and Paxton kits installed on L98 Corvettes, and it appears that the "hard" parts are much the same, brackets, pipes, etc. Greg has more "stuff" available, water injection, added injection controllers, etc. and I think he did more tuning on the memcal's. Not sure Paxton even supplied upgraded chips. I asked a guy that had one (Paxton) at a car show and all he had was an FMU booster on the pressure regulator.
CRAP! Too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperL98
Thanks for the thread size. I'll take a look to see what I have here at home. If I don't have 'em, I'll pick them up tomorrow at work.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperL98
Thanks for the link. I've actually downloaded most of the .PDF files that Blower Works has available, but I haven't really looked through them yet. I'll do that as soon as I finish with this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperL98
Thanks again for all the help SuperL98! Greatly appreciated.
BTW - you wouldn't happen to have a copy of the installation instructions that you can scan and email me would you?
Hi speedytang,Quote:
Originally Posted by speedytang
I thought the same thing you did with respect to this pulley, but as it turns out Carroll (now Blower Works) offers six different diameter pulleys for the Paxton SN series superchargers - from 3.50"dia to 4.60"dia (in .25" increments).
And the reason they used a taper-lock insert to hold the pulley on the shaft is because the tapered cone insert actually "grabs" the entire shaft when the three bolts are tightened and torqued to spec. According to Carroll, it is far superior to keyway type pulleys.
Freaked me out, though! :laugh:
Although, I gotta ask - with the original SN89 impeller (not the upgraded "pink" impeller) and a 4.25"dia pulley, is there any "real" advantage for me to go with a smaller pulley if I'm just bolting up to a relatively stock 350 TPI motor? Would there be if I were to upgrade the impeller?
What the heck is the "pink impeller"? I know they made two styles of impellers for the sn series, one produced 5-6psi, the other 7-8psi. not much difference, just heating the air more:rolleyes: Interesting on the pulley keyway.
Still we need to know what you crank pulley size is.
Hi Dirk. Sorry about the confusion. From what I understand, there is an upgraded impeller for the SN89 series of superchargers, available from Paradise Wheels. The I don't know many details about the impeller itself, other than the fact that it ups the boost by about 1.5psi from the original style impeller. It's probably the second impeller you mentionedQuote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
The reason why I called it pink is because it's annodized red, but it actually has a pink hue to it. I think Pavement Pounder installed one in his SN93 when he rebuilt it. Here's what it looks like, along side the stock one:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v129/p...d/Pic_0019.jpg
And I agree - that keyway is interesting. I know that split collets are used to hold industrial machine tools like end-mills and stuff, but I've never seen it used on this type of application. But I trust Carroll, they seem to know their stuff.
Sorry about that. It's stock sized - 7.2"dia.Quote:
Originally Posted by pavement pounde
Pavement Pounde has the VR4 impeller.
Oh! :shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
Well, that would explain the difference between the stock grey one I have and the one he's using. See? I told you I was a novice. :)
Any idea if that's the impeller that Paradise Wheels sells customers that opt for the upgraded when they send their blowers into them for a rebuild?
No, the pink impeller in pavement pounde is the upgraded impeller for the SN series from Paradise Wheels. He took those pictures before he upgraded to the VR-4 impeller and scroll cover. Those pictures were taken when he was rebuilding his SN-93 a while ago (before the VR-4 conversion)
Thanks Red350DropTop! That clears things up a bit (for me, at least).Quote:
Originally Posted by Red350DropTop
So if I understand you correctly, when upgrading to a VR-4 impeller, the scroll also has to be replaced with the VR-4 specific one?
impellor, ticker rearplate and extra shim
Getting hear a little late but a taper lock has far superior holding power over just keys and eliminates key walk. Used all the time in industrial applications.
Hi Pavement Pounder! So the scroll cover DIDN'T have to be replaced to upgrade to a VR-4?Quote:
Originally Posted by pavement pounde
Changes:
Scroll Cover- You can identify a VR-4 cover by its smooth surface on the rear vs. ribs on a SN-series.
Impeller
Longer bolts to hold scroll cover (it is thicker)
Inlet and Outlet bigger
Reshimming of impeller off output shaft to get proper scroll to impeller clearance
SWEET! Thanks Red350DropTop. I think I misunderstood Pavement Pounder when he said "ticker rear plate", he was actually talking about the scroll cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red350DropTop
You'll have to forgive the question, but is all that stuff in the photo available as a stand-alone kit, or does someone have to buy like a VR-4 supercharger and rip it appart to us all those items in their SN series charger? If it is a kit, who sells it?
Well, Dirk Diggler has the last "new" kit from Craig at Paradise Wheels. That picture is a kit I bought off Dirk Diggler last summer. It was supposed to be the last VR-4 kit available, but Craig at Paradise found some more. He told Dirk Diggler when he ordered his current kit that this was the last one for real, and he almost didn't sell it to him.
You can physically bolt a VR-4 into a SN bracket. A VR-4 is a SN series blower with the special impeller and scroll cover with tightened clearences in the ball drive.
Your only option to get one is to buy the kit of Dirk Diggler, or find a used one on ebay.
I've actually corresponded with Dirk Diggler via email, and while it is tempting to pick up his VR-4 kit (especially knowing it's the last of it's kind...) I've had to pass on it. I think the rebuild of my SN89 is going to be enough of a strain on the wallet as it is, without adding the cost of the VR-4 kit. Who knows, if in a few months Dirk still has the kit, I may take him up on it...:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Red350DropTop
But now I think I realize what's going on. The VR-4 was an actual model supercharger that was based on the SN series, and as such the impeller was interchangeable with any SN supercharger (as long as you replaced the scroll cover and re-shimed the impeller). And as an upgrade, all the parts required to turn a standard SN series supercharger into a VR-4 (ie. impeller, scroll cover, bolts, shims, etc) were made available by Paxton and then eventually by Paradise Wheels. Do I have it right now?
So how does the upgraded impeller (the one I call the "pink" impeller) that Paradise Wheels currently sells for the SN series superchargers compare to the VR-4 impeller?
You got it pretty much right. A VR-4 was a SN-93 or SN-92 ect. that Paxton took and put the special impeller and scroll cover on. You must also tighten up the ball drive because if not it will slip under the strain of pushing all the CFM the VR-4 impeller does. This requires you to run an oil cooler on the VR-4.
A VR-4 pushes 1400 CFM. The pink impeller SN will only put out about 850 CFM. Less boost.
The pink impeller is "supposed" to give 1-2 psi over a stock SN-89 impeller. But that is nothing like the VR-4 impeller. You can compare the pictures and see how much bigger the VR-4 impeller is than the pink.
Whoo Hoo! I finally got something right!Quote:
Originally Posted by Red350DropTop
This may be heading off-topic a bit, but since you brought up the oil cooler, does that mean that if I run an oil cooler system on a "stock" SN89, that I should see a dramatic increase in overall reliability and life-expectancy of the supercharger? Assuming normal street use, not all-out racing.
1400CFM vs. 850CFM :shocked: ?!? HOLLY JEEBAS!!! That's a major difference - the VR-4 is almost DOUBLE!!! No wonder everyone with a ball-drive supercharger wants one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red350DropTop
You're right, the VR-4 is substantially bigger. Man, that 1-2psi over the stock SN89 impeller is starting to look pretty minescule compared to the VR-4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red350DropTop
But on a relatively stock 350 TPI (L98) engine, is it worthwhile to go with a VR-4, or will the upgraded "pink" impeller be fine?
Not everyone wants one. Much as I love my SN93, if I was to add the cost of VR-4-ing it, I could get substantially newer, tougher, better technology than the VR-4 supplies.
I set a cap at 350 horse for myself with this 5.0. It's easy to make that power level, and the stock hard parts behind it will live a meelion years at that power level.
I know it's sacrilege but, that's how I feel about it...:)
F=MA
I don't think it's sacrelige, I think it's realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by F=MA
When I picked up my SN89, my intention wasn't 600rwhp. If I really wanted that, then I would have probably done what you suggested and gone with newer/better/more efficient technology.
But I think that for the cost, a standard SN series blower is hard to beat as long the goal is realistic. I'd like to see between 350-375hp out of my relatively stock 350 TPI motor, and with 6.0-6.5psi of boost, I think that goal is very possible.
I guess the reason I'm asking so many questions about the VR-4 is because it would be nice to know if (and how) it would be possible to get something like 12 or even 14psi of boost out of these old SN units. Not because I want to run that much (besides, I don't think my engine would handle that for too long), but because it's interesting to know it's possible.
But that raises yet another question. With the capability of such high boost pressures and flow rates that the VR-4 affords, has anyone given any serious thought to possibly casting both the impeller and the scroll cover and re-introducing the kit? If there were enough interest, I'd bet the cost would be quite reasonable. I know I'd consider it.
If you tool for the unit now and with the market place you the customer could get a better deal still by buying a Novi 1000 which has a nice market share. I have only had big Roots style blowers till I got into the VR4 (never owned a 'SN'). When I purchased my first VR4 in 1990 it was $4k with the line cooler. I don't need over 15psi right now or want to spin my engine over 6800 rpm so to me the VR4 is still a bargain because cost now and parts. I am on over 30 Boards and people are having problems with all the brands Paxton,Vortech,Procharger and they are paying $800-$1200 on repairs because no 3rd party source for internal parts and most are out of the 3 year warranty and still have less than 5k miles. I am probably over 125k miles on the four VR4 units I have had with only rear seal failure. I will say for the money a used VR4 or a Vortech 'A' is the best money spent.
Can't disagree there, but, I'm adding the SN93 to the list because my setup cost me about $700 CAD when all was said and done, and has been no hassle since I replaced the tired bearing races. It makes it's 5 psi with a pretty tight Gator belt and needs little attention from me maintenance wise.
Like it, no hassle, 300+ on a stock 5.0 motor, stock driveability and mileage, no problemo.:cool:
F=MA
I too considered going with a different charger, however, I alread had the sn2000, another $700 for my VR4 would put me where I wanted to be. I looked at selling my sn2000 for say 1000 if I were lucky & the 700 for hte VR$. I would need another 1500 to get the procharger. As speedy said, the rebuilds are expensive. Crap, I know how easy it's to rebuild the sn series, hence, why I went to the VR4. If I would have went with the procharger, I would have been in the same boat as I"M in now. Needing new injectors, more work and time in tuning my chip. I would have been really pissed since I've no time for my car becasue of school! Crap, I hardly ever get to drive my car because of school:( Anyway, it all comes down to what your looking for. cost effeicinet supercharger easy to rebuild is what i'm always after....hard to hide funds from the wife all the time:D
I hear ya bro - I'm in school right now too, so any money I have left over for mods to my car needs to be spent very wisely. Lucky for me though, I don't have the wife (or girlfriend) problem you mentioned, so I'm good there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
I don't mean to be taking this off topic - again - but if you don't need to sell the stuff to pay for school (and I'm assuming that you don't) then why not just keep both the SN2000 and the VR4 upgrade kit until you finish school? How much longer do you have left before you're done? I mean, the supercharger stuff ain't gonna go bad sitting in the garage. And unless someone steals the car, it ain't goin' anywhere either. So just leave all that stuff in the garage, and come back to it when you're done school and have the time. That's what I do with my car when things get too hectic for me to play with it - just park it (on jack stands, of course), cover it (don't forget the fuel stabilizer), and come back to it later.
That's just my $0.02 bro.
Now, back on topic, I'm with you with respect to a cost-efficient supercharger that's easy to rebuild. I will be honest, I always liked the Paxton supercharger design long before I ever got this SN. But I never realized just how easy they are to rebuild. I mean, I don't care even if the thing needs to be rebuilt every year - for the effort, I'd do it!
I'm just curious as to some of the things that were (and still are) available in order to get the boost up. Of course, my motor is a stock L98 350, so I may not need to increase anything right now. But if I ever upgrade the engine (maybe build a small-block 427 or something) then it'll be important to know what I will need to do to the SN so that it will be able to keep up.
I have plenty of power. I dont want a roll cage, I think it will run 11 flat with the sn2000. VR4 may need a roll cage. The VR4 was a mere want for me, not a need. But I do need to sell it! My wife and I try to pay for my school cash only so we will not have any debt. Sorry if my responces have been a bit muttled, just running on very VERY little sleep!