Yeah, I'm complaining about my install, too!!!

I gotta say, it doesn't seem like Paxton actually installed this thing on a car before they released the design. I'm a bit frustrated right now, so bear with me.

Background: "Old style" Novi 1k (bought in December) install on a stock 89 LX. Now, my car is stock, *but* it has a 94 shortblock in it. I don't think that should matter, but maybe it does. Now, on to my problems.

1. The "instructions" (I use that term loosely) say to remove the stock oil sending unit, put the little T-block in it's place, and attach the oil feed line for the blower and the sending unit to the T-block. Fine. Except that once I remove the sending unit, I can't install the T-block because it WON'T EVEN TURN! There's not enough room because the engine block interferes with it. I've been told that this is because I have an SN95 block. If so, I'd like to see that area on a Fox3 block, because I can't imagine it being different. Seems like I'll need an extension to push it out from the block so that the T-block will fit, but for now I don't have the sending unit connected, so no oil pressure gauge. Not good.

2. The blower hits the smog pump. I didn't even want to put the smog pump in there, all of it's plumbing is removed, but I couldn't figure out where to put that little bracket for the alternator without it. I ended up having to take the Dremel to the oil return fitting on the blower to get it to fit. Mission accomplished, but come on!

3. The blower *will* hit the hood when I put it back on, it's obvious. I've read in previous threads about clocking the blower, I guess that's what I'll have to do, but again, come on!!

4. My discharge tube is going to be *really* close to my Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plate on the passenger's side shock tower. I'm running one of Steve's, but it looks like the Paxton one will have the same problem.

5. I can't install the idler pulley that goes right under the blower because the A/C lines are in the way. There just ain't no freaking way it's going to go. I'll try and get my digital camera and take a picture of the area to show you guys what I mean.

I'm only a little over halfway done with this thing, and I've already had all these problems! Sorry, guys, but right now I'm really wishing I'd gone with a Vortech. I know lots of guys with them (which is part of the reason I went with the Novi), and none of them had this kind of trouble.

First, please calm down - I will leave the thread open, but please be calm. Some of your problems are related the the SN95 config.

1 - Every 87-93 I have seen has been fine.

2 - I had to do this - took 5 minutes.

3 - Very common, takes 5 minutes to fix.

4 - I have D&D plates with Steve's pipe no problems.

5 - Take a pic of this one.

Take it nice and easy, we will help you out.

Ian

Heck, I thought I was being nice, you should have heard me in the garage an hour ago... :D

1. Yeah, I guess I can't blame Paxton for that one, though I am surprised it's that different.

2. Ok, it only took me 5 minutes, too (after fighting with it for an hour) but it just seems odd to me that they would sell a kit that can't be made to fit without modification!

3. See above

4. Cool. It looked a bit scary but it sounds like I should be OK.

5. I'll take a pic. Of course, the alternative is to remove the A/C, but this is a street car and I don't wanna do that!

On a related topic to #2, how do you guys attach your alternators if you don't have the smog pump to attach the bracket to? I'd really like to get rid of the smog pump to gain the room.

Ian, I appreciate the site and all the help, and I didn't mean to come off like a jerk, I'm just frustrated right now. I hope you understand......

I can understand where you are coming from, calm is always the best way to be around here - we will help you out.

The kits are different, there is a reason why Paxton says 87-93 and then make a different kit for 94-95.

1 - SN95

2 - This has been discussed before, each car is different, Paxton cannot make 100 kits to fit every little difference. I know some users that did not even have to touch their smogs, so this is not common.

3 - Again differences in engines, motor mounts, and hoods all come into play here. This is a more common problem with the 1K's due to the very high discharge.

4 - You should be ok.

5 - Please take a pic for me.

Steve (468LC) has his alternator with no smog, here is a pic:
http://www.novipower.com/photopost/d...osmog1-med.jpg

I am sure he will jump in here to help out.

Just a quick note to all users. We are not Paxton, we only try to support this awesome product the best way we can. We cannot change any of the methods, designs, or instructions that Paxton supplies with their kits. If I could afford it I would buy every NOVI and do articles for you guys, but that is only a dream :) The best thing I can suggest would be to tell us about your problem - please be calm and clear, we will work to help you.

I do speak to Paxton regularly and I am always sure to send the common problems onto them to see if they can help out. Paxton does read this board as it is a great tool for them. I like to think we had something to do with the new design of the 1K. The users that were posting about the plastic tube, no bypass, and single drive were heard!

Anyhow just a quick note, continue on...calmly ;)

Ian

He doesn't have an sn95. He has a fox with a block from a 94-95. The BLOCK should be the exact same block that came in the 86-93.

I would like to see a pic of the part you're talking about with the oil log. I had to turn my log towards the front of the motor in order to get the T in, THEN turn the log back towards the back of the motor to clear the p/s pump.

Hope this helps.

Yes but I do not know 100% why Paxton makes a different kit. Is it the block, heads, alternator, smog, or is it the car itself?

Ian

Its the car, and the accessories/attachments. The accessories (p.s and a.c) on a fox bolt to the waterpump. They do not attach this way on the 94-95.

Also, the accessories on a fox stick out from the engine almost 2" farther than an sn95

Regards,

tspangle:

I had the same prob with my t-block I dont know if my car is a late 93 but my oil sender was long and black.

There is supposed to be a long extention to move the sender out from the block. Also the senders are diff. I had an 88 at the time so I switched them to fix mt prob but if I didnt have another car it could be difficult to get the part.

Good luck

Quote:

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Originally posted by Blue91
Its the car, and the accessories/attachments. The accessories (p.s and a.c) on a fox bolt to the waterpump. They do not attach this way on the 94-95.

Also, the accessories on a fox stick out from the engine almost 2" farther than an sn95

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Don't forget that the SN95 has the big bend in the upper intake, so the discharge tube is totally different.

Ian, you are right about the fact that this thing has to fit a bunch of different vehicles, etc. Heck, I used to design parts for a living, and I know it's all about compromise. Still, this seems like a lot of fiddling to have to do to get it to work on the most common and popular application. One reason I went with a blower was to get a proven kit. I can't even imagine what turbo kits must be like. :eek:

One thing to mention the next time you talk to Paxton is that it might be nice if the directions would mention "you might have to do this" or whatever. Part of the reason I struggled with fitment last night for an hour was that I couldn't believe it would hit like that, so I thought I had it lined up wrong. I dunno. I'm calmer now, and I will take a pic of the A/C line situation tonight and post it.

Also, I see how the belt routing, etc. goes when the smog pump is gone, what I'm wondering about is that little bracket that attaches to the back of the alternator. With the smog gone, there's nowhere to attach it.

Thanks for the help, guys.....

There is some searchable info on this in here.

Here is a pic of 5150s no smog setup which is very similar to mine only I used angle iron.

http://www.novipower.com/forums/atta...s=&postid=3540

One thing I do suggest is to use a spacer tube on the top bolt that is for the smog pump to fool the novi bracket into thinking it still has a smog pump bolted to it. Failure to do this and overtorquing that bolt could distort the blower bracket.

I know that they were easy fixes, but Paxton should be making a kit that has NO defects or alterations. Hell, I didnt get a complete kit or finished instructions. Kelly asked me if the discharge pipe fit, which it did not. Dont you think he should know if it fits or not?

I hope this thing runs better than it went together.

Let me see if I can shed some light. First off , is the 94-95 motor a complete, meaning timing cover, water pump, brackets and so on? The oil sending unit problem is sometimes that. I have seen where people will take that long extension tube off, and put the sender straight to the block. Does your block have this extension? Make sure if the extension is there it has the taper side pointing up and in the direction to the radiator. Sometimes the oil drain is in the wrong hole, and that could be whats interfering with the smog pump, you should not of had to grind on drain fitting. If the blower is hitting the hood, you will need to clock a bit towards the fender well I would suggest leaving the volute lose, mount it back in the bracket, set the tube up, and position the tube and the scroll so it fits and the hood closes. The ac lines should not be a problem, if anything slightly push them out of the way towards the fender well this is a common thing to do with any blower, If you have any further problems please call me at (888)972-9866 ext 281.

Thanks
Kelly.

Welcome to the world of blower installations. I don't have any smog, power sterring, or ac, so you can imagine the problems I incurred with my novi2k instalation. While you're working on it remember it's a car and not the space shuttle. Tolerances arn't going to be perfect, and somtimes a large pry bar is needed. I don't know about the 1k's, but on my 2k I don't have the blower brackets holding anything but the blower. My alternator is now on the driver's side with a custom bracket and tensioner. What I'm getting at is that I didn't even use any extra bracing to make up for the lack of smog or alternator stuff w/ the exception of where the alternator bolts between the back bracket and the larger front plate. It seems to me that everything is perfectly sturdy like this. I have had no belt issues. And finally don't hesitate to call Kelly, he'll help you alot.

Brandon

Quote:

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Originally posted by Kherring@Paxton
Let me see if I can shed some light. First off , is the 94-95 motor a complete, meaning timing cover, water pump, brackets and so on? The oil sending unit problem is sometimes that. I have seen where people will take that long extension tube off, and put the sender straight to the block. Does your block have this extension? Make sure if the extension is there it has the taper side pointing up and in the direction to the radiator.

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My motor is just the SN95 shortblock, the timing cover, water pump, accessories, etc. are all Fox3. It does not have the extension tube, but it sounds like that's what I need. My sender was going straight into the block. Anyone know where I can find the extension? Or what the part number is?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Kherring@Paxton
Sometimes the oil drain is in the wrong hole, and that could be whats interfering with the smog pump, you should not of had to grind on drain fitting.

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I didn't see another hole, but I'll look again. The fitting was already installed on the blower, so I didn't bother to look for another place for it to go. In any case, that part fits now, so I'm not too worried about it.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Kherring@Paxton
If the blower is hitting the hood, you will need to clock a bit towards the fender well I would suggest leaving the volute lose, mount it back in the bracket, set the tube up, and position the tube and the scroll so it fits and the hood closes.

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Will do. I didn't know this was such a common issue, and if not for guys like you and Ian telling me to do it, I'd be afraid to mess with my new blower like that!

Quote:

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Originally posted by Kherring@Paxton
The ac lines should not be a problem, if anything slightly push them out of the way towards the fender well this is a common thing to do with any blower.

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I'll try, but they look like they are going to need a pretty serious push. I'm afraid to get too rough with them, I really don't feel like getting sprayed with R-134... Again, I should be able to post a pic tonight.

Thanks for replying, Kelly. I was pretty mad last night (as you can tell) but the good tips I've gotten from the folks on here and the fact that you and Paxton are stepping in to help make me feel a lot better. One way or another I'll get it working.....

Ok, here's my A/C line problem. Could this be related to my SN95 block issue? Also, my car has some kind of aftermarket radiator, it's thicker than the stock one. So my condenser is probably not in quite the same place.

It looks to me like I'll have to mangle this line pretty bad to get the idler in there. What do you guys think?

Another pic. Sorry for the huge images......

You should have plenty of room to "tweak" the upper A/C line, from the pics, you need to rotate it clockwise at the "L" to gain the clearance needed. Take your time and be gentle, all will be well :D

HAHA!

Try putting one on a OHC V-8 Dakota. The kits were brand new, when I put mine on. Several items didn't want to make there way into the right place. I just busted out on the tire iron, and everything fell into place. ;)

I've done a SN-93 Unit on a Fox-Body, and it was smooth as silk.

I do think Paxton needs to spend a bit more attention to detail. Like putting the right parts in the box, the first time. (I know everybody makes mistakes, and it's all good, but things can get hairy when you're expecting to ride around in boost and you end up having to wait on parts.)

ok guys, i was looking in my car (93gt) & at my novi 1k kit. i dont have the extension on my presure sensor. so it looks like im going to have trouble getting the tee onto my block! has anyone doen this w/o the extension? where can i get one of these extensions?
thanx for the help!!

I had the same problem with my Novi 2000. The idler pulley for the blower was going to interfere with the a/c line. The only fix I could find was yank the line and get a new one bent up...sucks, but that's part of modifying cars(some things don't work together).

It looks like you should have enough room to play around with the lines - take it slow, try not to bend them too hard.

On another note is your oil return secure? I would go back towards the firewall instead of down between the ac lines (just my thought :D

Ian

Quote:

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Originally posted by Ian
It looks like you should have enough room to play around with the lines - take it slow, try not to bend them too hard.

On another note is your oil return secure? I would go back towards the firewall instead of down between the ac lines (just my thought :D

Ian

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I got my A/C lines mangled enough to get it to fit. They aren't too pretty now, but they didn't break, so they'll be fine.

Yeah, everything is really tight in there. Since I've now had the blower off and on about 10 times trying to get it to fit, it'll be no big deal to reroute the oil return.

So, once I moved the A/C lines, I put the pulleys on, and they missed lining up with the smog pump by a QUARTER OF AN INCH! <sigh> So, I'm going to get a smog pump eliminator bracket so that I can adjust the position of that pulley and hope all the other pullies line up. Dumping the smog pump will give me a lot more room anyway.

But there's no way I'm going to get Steve's discharge tube in there with those C/C plates. Even the stock one will almost touch, and I don't even have the plates adjusted for max negative camber yet. Plus, with the rocking of the motor, I've still got a problem there.

I'm starting to think this just wasn't meant to be..:( :( :(

WOW - that has to be due to the different style block. I had to shim one pulley but only with a very small washer - yours is off much more than mine was.

Can you get a pic of the intake / discharge / cc plate area?

Ian

Quote:

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Originally posted by Ian
WOW - that has to be due to the different style block. I had to shim one pulley but only with a very small washer - yours is off much more than mine was.

Can you get a pic of the intake / discharge / cc plate area?

Ian

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I know, I just can't beleive the block would be so different! And it's not even possible to shim this up right because the idlers stick out farther than the smog. Washers would only make it worse...

I'll try and get a pic when I put the blower back on. Again.

I took some pics of my pulley and discharge tube situations. Here are the pullies. I think if I get the pulley spacers machined down some I can get them to line up. But they don't even line up with the blower pulley! I've wracked my brain to think what I might have done wrong installing the bracket, but it really only goes on one way, and the blower and the idler pulleys both attach to it anyway. It just amazes me that they could be off by so much.
:confused:

Here is a pic with Steve's discharge tube. I cut off about 1/4" of it to get it to fit, he said I would probably have to. As you can see, it's basically touching.

And here is the stock Paxton discharge tube. Just enough room for my pinky.....

I'm really at a loss here. Ian, Kelly, any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.......

Just a thought, have you checked the placement of your motor mounts? When I installed my long tubes initially, I couldn't get the mounts to sit quite "right " after the install, the motor was actually shifted/ tilted over towards the pass side. The clearance was minimal between the shock tower & discharge tube. Later on I had to pull the heads & also removed the headers. When I re-installed everything, I got the mounts back into the proper position and noticed that I had well over an inch of clearance now between the shock tower & discharge.

My thoughts... loosen the motor mount nuts, play around with raising & lowering the engine within the adjustment range available. Worth a shot.

this is true, i had to shim my engine on the passenger side to make it even. it sagged a bit causing my headers to rattle on the k-member. you can actually shim between the mount & k-member quite a bit............also, a 3/8" plenum spacer would raise your intake up a bit wich would pull your discharge tube that much up & away from your c/c plate. the 3/8 should be enough to move the tube & not change the pitch of the tube enough to cause mounting problems!

Well, I appreciate the help, guys, but I gave up. I put the hood back on my car, and even with the blower clocked over as far as it'll go, it touches the hood. And clocking the blower that far only makes my discharge tube clearance problem worse. My motor is sitting down all the way on the mounts, so if I tried to shim it over, it would raise the motor and make my clearance problem worse. Given the pulley problem as well, I decided it was time to punt.

I guess I can't really blame Paxton, I have a non-standard configuration, and I'm sure this kit would fit fine on 99.9% of the 86-93 Mustangs that are out there, I'm just unlucky enough to have one that fits into that .1% I wonder what other fun things I'll find about this car. :confused: In any case, the kit is now on eBay, it's still brand new and I'm throwing in my F-150 pulley, steel discharge tube, and Bosch bypass valve. If you know anyone that's looking for a Novi, tell them to take a look at my auction . Again, thanks anyway......

I had to go out an buy a new t-block. Actually I bought an Aeroquip T which looks much better and is much more compact then a brass fitting. I was surprised they sent the T out too, but I am hapier with the Aeroquip fitting.

The problem with the idler... it's on backwards. Take it off the "arbor", and turn it around and put it back on. I'm 99% sure that's the problem, as I installed mine the SAME WAY when I first installed my 2k. The directions didn't specify that the offset was different on each side, so I didn't pay attention to the side I had facing out.

Regards,

Quote:

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Originally posted by Blue91
The problem with the idler... it's on backwards. Take it off the "arbor", and turn it around and put it back on. I'm 99% sure that's the problem, as I installed mine the SAME WAY when I first installed my 2k. The directions didn't specify that the offset was different on each side, so I didn't pay attention to the side I had facing out.

Regards,

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Trust me, I tried it every which way. The offset on the pullies I had (both of them) was the same on both sides. In other words the bearing was centered in the pulley. Makes me wonder if I got the right pullies with my kit.......

In any case, it's sold.

Sorry to hear, but I am glad you were able to sell it.

Ian

Sorry to hear, but I am glad you were able to sell it.

Ian