ok. I can get this for a resonable price. Supposed to be to 8.75:1 i think? slap my heads on it, get a tfs intake and let it rip? it's already go the right pan on it for a fox. Does the tfs intake clear the hood? I NEED FUELIE WINDSOR PEEPS ASAP!
Printable View
ok. I can get this for a resonable price. Supposed to be to 8.75:1 i think? slap my heads on it, get a tfs intake and let it rip? it's already go the right pan on it for a fox. Does the tfs intake clear the hood? I NEED FUELIE WINDSOR PEEPS ASAP!
this thing is has like 100 miles ( yes i know the guy well) and i know he'll get off of it cheap!
choices
I didn't think any of the 351W FI intakes fit under a stock hood.
Full is correct I do not think a 351 will fit under a stock hood. You will also have to buy swap headers, and maybe an h-pipe.
The 74 is one of the strongest factory 351 blocks out there..
Ian
my question is will the bottom end put up with the kind of abuse you guys know i will subject it too! LOL i will install good bolts of course. I don't know if the pistons are original but i will find out.
this may give me an excuse to go to the cervinis.com? i already have paint. MMM more parts to order MMM
The 74 351 is MUCH stronger than your 302 so that will be fine. I would use main and head studs, ARP rod bolts, and check the pistons (forged)
Ian
The general consensus is the stock Windsor blocks are good until about 600rwhp. Of course this is the same consensus that the stock 302 is good to 500rhwp. Many people go over both of these, but they are on borrowed time.
The late 60s/early 70s are the strongest production blocks (69-71). During the 70s they began to lower the nickel content making the blocks weaker. I believe this continued through about 78 when they leveled off. From then on, they are all about the same. The 74 block will be better than the later motors.
http://www.corral.net/photopost/data...oenix1-med.jpgQuote:
Originally posted by FullAuto
I didn't think any of the 351W FI intakes fit under a stock hood.
http://www.corral.net/photopost/data...80phoenix2.jpg
Sorry to piss in your wheaties fellas, but this is Novi357's car. He not only has a 408 Novi2k combi under his stock hood. The intake is also a spyder intake:eek: . He's on his way to another 9.90 pass in this pic. It makes a great sleeper with the stock hood and 2 1/2 tailpipes.
You will have to use drop solid mounts and cut the braces from under the hood, but yes they will fit.
Doug
Awesome! Thanks doug! there is hope yet because i hate my current motormounts and a hood is not in the budget.
do you have any opinion on the 74 crank and rods? It is a jasper reman.
and thanks again.
Brent,
If you can pick it up cheap enough. Go for it. What pistons are in it? That will be the determining factor. I ran very low tens way back in the early 90's with a stock block, crank, rods 351. Novi357 had a stock block in his car, it made over 600 at the wheels. After 2 years, he went lean and burnt a piston. The block is still in his garage. We have another friend that made 800rwhp with a 69 block 408, YS trim, NOS combo. He ran that combo for 2 1/2 years. He took it out of his car and sold it to another one of our friends. It still runs today. I can go on and on, but the morral of the story. Put the damn thing in your car. It is twice as strong as the 302 and it wont break unless you get stupid with it. Use big enough injectors, a full fuel system, and good gas. You won't have a problem.
Doug
amen doug, why I'm going to do a big windsor in a nut shell.
They live forever if your not stupid rattling the thing to death. I'm still amazed that the spider fits under that stock hood. :)
74's are the last real strong production blocks made.
And just for the record, we tore down my buddies 380 cubic inch bennett windsor, to find non other then a 1 piece rear main seal in it, and a lifter valley that will except a hydro roller spider, (not machined into it). This meaning it was a newer production block. It's a solid roller now, that sees 7k on a regular basis, and made about 900 rwhp on the squeeze. The car has been low 9's for two years now, and just recently burnt a piston. Soooo.
is it a big deal to machine the old blocks for the new hyd-roller gear? This is sounding sweeter and sweeter.
It's not a big deal at all Brent,
you do have to use a reduced base circle cam however. Or you can spend about 400 bucks on the retrofit lifters and use a normal size cam.
I know machineing isn't bad, not super sure about the the reduced base circle stuff with the retro lifters though.
what to do about the cam situation. could i run a standard "shelf cam" and the correct pushrods with the retrofit lifters? How reliable are these retrofit fit lifters? cause i would think the ford setup would be hard to beat. Solid flat tappet? I could try an el cheapo hyd flat tappet even though i know i'd be leaving alot of power on the table. I'm sure i'd just get the TFS intake with the 75mm tbody.
obviously if i'm gonna run a N1K on a windsor this is on a budget. I know this is not Ideal but i think it'll boogie easy 10's all day long!
HEADERS. i've seen some windsor swap headers that fit horrible.
I'm not opposed to a larger tube shortie if I can find an h that bolts up without too much drama and clears the C4.
timing cover works yes? dipstick tube?
My 255 pump should keep up with some new lines and AN fittings?
any thoughts rants or criticism will be greatly appreciated.
ttt?:D
there may be a major garage sale coming!
Quote:
Originally posted by regattacoupe
what to do about the cam situation. could i run a standard "shelf cam" and the correct pushrods with the retrofit lifters? How reliable are these retrofit fit lifters? cause i would think the ford setup would be hard to beat. Solid flat tappet? I could try an el cheapo hyd flat tappet even though i know i'd be leaving alot of power on the table. I'm sure i'd just get the TFS intake with the 75mm tbody.
The retrofit lifters work great. Comp cams sells some really good blower cams.
obviously if i'm gonna run a N1K on a windsor this is on a budget. I know this is not Ideal but i think it'll boogie easy 10's all day long!
With the right heads,intake,cam, and the blower, you should very low tens
HEADERS. i've seen some windsor swap headers that fit horrible.
I'm not opposed to a larger tube shortie if I can find an h that bolts up without too much drama and clears the C4.
timing cover works yes? dipstick tube?
Novi357(Brian) use to run shorties forever. I think he use to run 10.20's consitently with them and a 2 1/2 inch exhaust
My 255 pump should keep up with some new lines and AN fittings?
Yep
any thoughts rants or criticism will be greatly appreciated.
Get off your *** and go for it!
LOL Swap in progress.
thanks doug and brandon
np, hope to do the same down the road. :)
Hi,
Great thread. I'm building a 351 myself, gonna hit it with a YS trim, looking for somewhere around 650 RWHP when it's done. Been thinking about the bottom end tho. Was planning on using stock block, crank and rods, with forged TRW's.
I have heard from a few sources that the stock rods might be a weak link at the HP level tho. I'm not looking to spin the motor past 6500 ever. What do you guys know about longevity of the stock rods in something like what I'm wanting to build?
Thanks,
Jim
Well i'm really trying to build torque this year as i'm not going to be able to afford the hardware to really spin it up. http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/D...1=Display+Card
I'm using stock rods and crank as well and i'm gonna order a set of the dss pistons for the TW heads.
i'm using this cam with 1.7's, twisted wedge heads, and the tfs intake. I'm looking to make it 60' like gang busters
Brent does Paxton have the mount kit for the Novi1000 on a Tall Block 351.
Well i bought the little 1000 for two reasons and one of them is because it uses the same bracketry as the 2000. So i should just be able to change the base bracket to the alt auto bracket but i'm going to try to rig up where it'll work. As beefy as the Novi 1000/2000 hardware is I don't see it slinging any belts. Heck the belt i made over 75 passes and 3000 street miles looks brand new.
Okay here the new combo
74 351 with truck rods and very low miles
twisted wedge heads
TFS 351 intake(unless someone has a better idea for the money)
this cam http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/D...1=Display+Card
(going for torque remember)
truth is I won't have the money for the roller setup i want and thats the cam that is in it! LOL
Pro-M 80 for 42lb inj
Windsor Swap Shortie and a new matching x pipe
I think the lil blower that could might see 7-8 psi on this thing if i'm lucky. I do think it will run good though.
I might pick up a different cam but i'll cross that road when the time comes
Let me know what you think Aaron.
Hi Regattacoupe,
Your combo looks great, but I gotta say, I think that cam is gonna kill your power production. I know you're going for torque, but a 214/224 cam at .050" in a 351 is probably gonna be all done by 5000 rpm, even with a blower breathing into it (I run a bigger cam in my 302, a 222/232, and it's all done at 5800). I would say you'd need to kick those duration numbers up at least 10 degrees on both sides, otherwise you're leaving a lot of HP on the table.
Hope this helps,
Jim
I agree. And i do want it to pull to 5800 like my 302 did.
do you think an el junko flat tappet cam will make decent power. It wont be a higher revver so i think it'll work.
There are some *very* good flat tappet cams out there, both hydraulic and solid. Saying you would be leaving power on the table by skipping the roller cam is a rash assumption. If it were me, I would save the triple-digit money on the roller conversion bits and roller cam, it is much better spent elsewhere IMO.
If/when my '90 5.0 ever gives up the ghost, I have a 302 core out of a '74 Bronco sitting here that will be the basis for a long rod 306 buildup - with a flat tappet cam. I do like my Ultradyne roller cam in the 5.0 but I'm not into the weight-imposed rev limitations of the hydraulic roller hardware, I want something that will rev cleanly and reliably to 7k+ rpm and not cost me a left nut. :)
BTW when I use Engine Analyzer software, plug in TFS heads, Downs Ford breadbox intake (GT40 lower), the Wolverine 1165 cam that you picked (a good pick IMO), 1-3/4" shorty headers, and 11.8 psi at 5k rpm (900 cfm), it shows this combo making 452 hp @ 5.5k rpm, 450 Tq @ 5k rpm (over 400 FtLb from 3800 to 5800 rpm).
hmmm thanks chris. Maybe i should call COMP andd see what grinds they reccomend.
Brent,
The Holley uses the same lower as a ford truck. Ford used the same lower intake design on the 302 and I heard somewhere 351 trucks.
For cost effectivness I would try to locate a 351 lower and slap the Holley upper on it, if what I heard is true.
I am hoping it is because I too will oneday switch to a 351 and would like to save some cash that way.
Hi,
Yes, there are definitely decent hydralic flat tappet camshafts out there. My post did not state that you would be leaving a lot of power on the table if you didnt use a hydr roller cam, my statement was that you will leave a lot of HP on the table using a 214/224 duration cam in a 351 motor. If my 302 has a 222/232 cam in it and it peaks at 5800, you can just imagine where a smaller 214/224 cam will peak in a bigger 351 inch motor, you know?
Fanglemeister is correct, there are hydr flat tappet cams out there that will rev 7000 rpm no problem. Actually, I had considered a hydr flat tappet cam for my 351 project. Crane makes a 226/236 x .500/.520 on a 112 center that would probably work very well with a blower, but I've decided to use a hydr roller for mine. Course I'm running out of money on this little project and I still havent bought the cam and lifters yet, so who knows, I may end up with the hydr flat tappet after all :).
Jim
Chuck, i had considered that but to make it a performance piece i'd had to take it to fox lake(which is an hour down the road) and it have it worked or i'd have a blown windsor witha stock intake. So i dunno. I have my Holley II sold to a guy here in ohio and he's buying alot of my stuff. He's supposed to be by in a week or two. And i really like the TFS with the gray powdercoated upper.
Chris and jim told me what i already knew and didn't want to admit. LOL And i do appreciate it by the way! I'm gonna get ahold of some companies and order a good cam. That crane cam sounds great jim. I've got a hook up on a set of headers, dr.gas x, pan, balancer and flexplate.
it's starting to come together.
Well upon further inspection of the 74 it has a great crank, truck rods, and cast pistons. To make a real long story short i've got my heads relatively sold and talked myself into a set of Victor Jrs. :D It was not hard to do that one! I'm gonna run the crane 286-2 cam and the trickflow r intake. I'm gonna make sure i get a piston for right @ 9:1-9.25:1 for boost production. I know the novi 1000 is not ideal fot his setup(not even close) but with my fuel system constraints and other monatary factors i'll run the lil 1K for this year. I've got some bbk swap shorties-w-a doctor gas x in route as we speak and i'm gonna cut the flowmasters outta my catback and weld up the ultra flow welded muffs or the straightline muffs that rdrunner has.
I can't wait to get started on this!
Brent, keep us posted on your impressions of the swap! I plan to do this as well. I think the vic jr's where a good decision on your part as well.
I vote for the straight lines! I'll have a pair just as soon as I order my mac 3" catback. :)
Brandon
Well my friend has done the swap many times. He uses the 3/4" drop mounts from hpm and it works out pretty nice. As long as the A9L and Pro m 80 can handle the tune and the exhaust fits i can't forsee any major issues. Does anyone think the blower will hit the hood or will the motor mounts get me by?
I may end up with the straight lines just for the simple fact that no-one in the area runs them.I can't wait to see how this runs. A bunch of us are get some dyno time this spring and I'll surely have HP #'s before the track even opens here in ohio. I've gotta order my pistons, have it balanced, and get the interior wrapped up and i'll be ready to rock.
.update/bad news :rolleyes: ......My wife just a got a fairly larger than normal college bill(we pay cash) Gonna have to run my TFS Wedgies another year. BUT pistons are in the budget one way or the other. I'm gonna work on porting heads anyway. Mine were ported by alt auto but it is a very mild cleanup. The car is still gonna boogie though. :D maybe this way the 1000 can up for a while LOL
I'm gonna port some E7's for free and have guys run them then experiment on mine next year. If i have pistons for TW heads i imagine the R heads will show up sooner or later.
I just sold my 302 so this is a dedicated project.
ttt
Brent, I haven't been following along lately, what did you end up doing with the motor?
sold it last week. Should have my motor together shortly. Hope to have the car on the road in 2 or 3 weeks.