VR4 pics

[69fury]

I took these after i cleaned out the blower. The spindle, balls and races are scorched, and had pasty gluey rusty colored ex-lube all coating them.....

yes that's a 2.8 blower pulley and a 6 inch crank pulley. Shifting at 6,800rpm
6/2.8 x 6800 x 4.44 = 64,697rpm

I got it from two brothers that had an SN 92 on a 350TPI camaro making 6lbs, I think.

After they cracked a cylinder with 100shot on top of the blower, then built a 410 chevy for it and only got 1/2lb boost, bought the VR4 (rebuilt from Paxton) and got only 3 lbs.

They said they called Paxton and said "what pulleys give 15lbs?"
"these ones, but um........"
"we'll take 'em"
"uhhhhh, ok we'll send 'em"

so they made a test pass around the boulevard, pulled the belt and tubes, and headed out on Power Tour. At one of the tracks they couldn't get away from someone running his mouth, so they put the tubes and belts on, pulled to the line and ripped it.

He said it started growling at half track , they pulled it down and saw scorched steel, and put it on the bench 5 years ago.

Any one have any thoughts about whether it could go right back together with only new balls, races, spindle and a thorough cleaning?

Used for a few days, then drained, what is the group opinion of the seal life left?

[speedytang]

I have never seen a impeller that far out of balance to one side before. I would check that with a bubble balancer before putting it back together.

[69fury]

I have never seen a impeller that far out of balance to one side before. I would check that with a bubble balancer before putting it back together.

the fact that there are a few balance drills that are very shallow and that it lived after seeing 65k makes me think that someone paid close attention to it, but i agree it should be checked.

I keep reading that these are "easy" to rebuild yourself, but i'm very surprised no one has posted up a thread of pics showing the steps. If it's true that it can be done at home, and it holds true for all ball drives (let alone the VR4 that needs it most) why hasn't anyone taken pics of a play by play?

I know Paradise Wheel sells parts and does some other good tech and such, but there are a million articles, books, sites, and magazines showing how to assemble your own engine, and i dont think that we're gonna cost his kids their supper if we dont spend $7-1200 on a rebuild, shipping, and parts on him....lol i got kids to feed too- everyone has to catch a break somewhere.

The plain old truth is that it was given to me. Donated by a guy that thought it would work good on the old track toy that i found in a barn, and stuffed my powertrain into. I found a 61 Falcon that someone put a small ford, big ford, small chevy, then big chevy into. Now i've put my small block Dodge in it.

He's got the dipstick pump, but since it's an empty shell of a retired track car, i can put things where i want, like a 3 gallon reservoir in the trunk with a lube transfer pump that i got from a circle track guy (trans/rear axle pump) and bigger cooler.

I'll have to make the mounting bracket to mount it to a small dodge motor but i'm pretty handy using my buddy's bridgeport.

The only way this blower will ever run again is if i either learn to do it myself or save up to pay someone to rebuild it. Since we're on a shoestring budget to build the car, you can see where i am with that, lol...

so anyone got the field manual on these things- step by step with words of caution/wisdom?

-rick

[444]

The rebuild info is buried in the board if you search around for long enough. Basically old parts out, new parts in, then you take a shim kit and shim the races and impellors for the proper clearance. Paxton, paradaise and cundn all keep the tech info super secret to get you to send your s/c to them so they can make money off you. At least they still sell the parts so you can do it yourself. Luckily the info you need is buried on the board here, you just need to search for it.

[hey its me]

interesting, if you find the info on it you should post links.

[Granatelli]

the fact that there are a few balance drills that are very shallow and that it lived after seeing 65k makes me think that someone paid close attention to it, but i agree it should be checked.

I keep reading that these are "easy" to rebuild yourself, but i'm very surprised no one has posted up a thread of pics showing the steps. If it's true that it can be done at home, and it holds true for all ball drives (let alone the VR4 that needs it most) why hasn't anyone taken pics of a play by play?

I know Paradise Wheel sells parts and does some other good tech and such, but there are a million articles, books, sites, and magazines showing how to assemble your own engine, and i dont think that we're gonna cost his kids their supper if we dont spend $7-1200 on a rebuild, shipping, and parts on him....lol i got kids to feed too- everyone has to catch a break somewhere.

The plain old truth is that it was given to me. Donated by a guy that thought it would work good on the old track toy that i found in a barn, and stuffed my powertrain into. I found a 61 Falcon that someone put a small ford, big ford, small chevy, then big chevy into. Now i've put my small block Dodge in it.

He's got the dipstick pump, but since it's an empty shell of a retired track car, i can put things where i want, like a 3 gallon reservoir in the trunk with a lube transfer pump that i got from a circle track guy (trans/rear axle pump) and bigger cooler.

I'll have to make the mounting bracket to mount it to a small dodge motor but i'm pretty handy using my buddy's bridgeport.

The only way this blower will ever run again is if i either learn to do it myself or save up to pay someone to rebuild it. Since we're on a shoestring budget to build the car, you can see where i am with that, lol...

so anyone got the field manual on these things- step by step with words of caution/wisdom?

-rick

I wish I still had all that stuff - I would be happy to share it. however it is all in my head. There are tons of articles on how to rebuild the ball drive - i think i can scan a few for you

[89LX]

I just bought a VR4 set up and personally have spoken with Craig Conley at Paradise wheels and this is what he gave me for spec's for rebuilding the VR4.

Where to begin: He said you don't torque the case bolts you just tighten them by hand until tight. I did this and checked them after with a Snap on dial type inch pound torque
wrench just to make sure they were somewhat even numbers wise.

The gap under the impeller is NO less than .015 can be as much as .060 but NO less than
the .015.

The gap on the face and rear cover side should be between .030-.033.

The impeller Bolt is 25 FT LBS, He uses a 3/8 impact and just snaps the bolt down till seated. I actually used a torque wrench, I stepped on the handle and was able to use rags in each hand and turn it till I got my click at the 25 FT LBS.

The rotational torque should be 45 inch pounds, mine is right on the money but I had to
try different shims to get it right.

I also just had a response from Mr. Granatelli that the Maximum impeller speed is 46,000
RPM's. I put a 7" Crank pulley with the stock 4.25" on my SN-2000 just to try it out they are a 10 rib setup that came with my VR4, it is just about right for my 373's. I don't shift my car at 6200 but I could and still be under the 46,000 RPM's. I'm building an all forged
All brand new engine setup (Block,Crank,Aluminum Heads,ARP studs etc. all new) to handle the VR4 output. I figure with what it will put out I'm lifter valley supporting it and
main stud girdling it as well. I'm trying to build it as bullit proof as I can as I'm not easy on it by any means and don't want it to break. I hope this helped you and you can always call Craig at Paradise Wheels as he is a great guy to deal with. I have spoken with him several times he will help you, here is his number : 760-740-0954 his e-mail is : conleyr107@sbcglobal.net

[69fury]

Thanks for all the help, guys. might take a bit, since i'm still building the car, but I'll be looking into ordering new races, balls, spindle, cage, and evidently a shim kit..(there were only two of the little shims under the impeller, and i haven't seen any others in the case-that normal?)

Regarding the race on the gear box side: I was able to push the roll pin out from the back side, using the small hole. I then heated the floating aluminum plate, and trickled water on just the race, causing it to shrink and fall out.


The race pressed into the scroll housing, however is another story... there is no hole through the backside to let me push out the pin. (if there was a hole it would be under the impeller).

The pin itself isn't a rollpin (or at least doesn't look like one). It is shiny, smoothed over with a rounded bullnose shape to it (so i can't snag it will a drill bit to pull).

I'm not too happy about heating that whole side of the case to try and drop the race out, either. sooo..........

How does one get that race out?

[89LX]

I used a brad or tack puller shapped like a "V" and tapped the end to squeeze between the race and the Bellville washer. I did it in a couple of different spots and then I was able to stick a small pry bar under it then I layed another a little larger across the small one and used two for leverage picking up on the smaller one and pushing down on the larger handle I was able to lift it out. I did this a couple of times to get the shim height correct so I was at the 45 inch pounds rotational torque for a final figure. it didn't seem to stretch the hole at all. I would still have to tap it back into place with a hammer when I was trying different shim heights.

My e-mail directly is tfdali@sbcglobal.net if you need to get me quicker just notate VR4 in the subject line and I'll get back to you.

[Granatelli]

I just bought a VR4 set up and personally have spoken with Craig Conley at Paradise wheels and this is what he gave me for spec's for rebuilding the VR4.

Where to begin: He said you don't torque the case bolts you just tighten them by hand until tight. I did this and checked them after with a Snap on dial type inch pound torque
wrench just to make sure they were somewhat even numbers wise.

The gap under the impeller is NO less than .015 can be as much as .060 but NO less than
the .015.

The gap on the face and rear cover side should be between .030-.033.

The impeller Bolt is 25 FT LBS, He uses a 3/8 impact and just snaps the bolt down till seated. I actually used a torque wrench, I stepped on the handle and was able to use rags in each hand and turn it till I got my click at the 25 FT LBS.

The rotational torque should be 45 inch pounds, mine is right on the money but I had to
try different shims to get it right.

I also just had a response from Mr. Granatelli that the Maximum impeller speed is 46,000
RPM's. I put a 7" Crank pulley with the stock 4.25" on my SN-2000 just to try it out they are a 10 rib setup that came with my VR4, it is just about right for my 373's. I don't shift my car at 6200 but I could and still be under the 46,000 RPM's. I'm building an all forged
All brand new engine setup (Block,Crank,Aluminum Heads,ARP studs etc. all new) to handle the VR4 output. I figure with what it will put out I'm lifter valley supporting it and
main stud girdling it as well. I'm trying to build it as bullit proof as I can as I'm not easy on it by any means and don't want it to break. I hope this helped you and you can always call Craig at Paradise Wheels as he is a great guy to deal with. I have spoken with him several times he will help you, here is his number : 760-740-0954 his e-mail is : conleyr107@sbcglobal.net

The 2 most important things to remember is the gap between the impeller and scroll (impeller cover) .015 is ok. and the rotational torque. If you want to blower to make max output at 46,000 do this...set gap at .022, rotational torque 55 and spin the blower 55,000. - it won't live for long but it will make big power. on the street with a cooler, .015, 46,000 and an oil cooler should be happy

[JPJP]

I have heated up the housing w/ a torch to get the race out. As a consequence I cooked the Teflon seal.

I have had the best success simply using hot water. I actually discovered this idea by accident when I was cleaning it up in the laundry tub. The race just popped out! Of course this will depend on how the tolerances stack up regarding the race and the bore.

[69fury]

yeah, i was using water to expand the floating race (pulley side), but then decided to just lay it on the stove burner and bring it up gently to avoid warping it. -popped right out once i cooled the race with the sink sprayer-

I guess i could try to boil the whole scroll case if i can find a pot big enough, or slowly bring it up in the oven, but i'm skeptical of it falling out with that pin still in it.

I'm not goin to attempt prying it out of the main casing.

[JPJP]

Like I mentioned I discovered it by accident when washing it by hand. I almost lost the pin too.

I would be careful about spraying that hardened race w/ cool water as cracking could happen.

[69fury]

Well i'm taking out the races because i assumed they were scored by the balls during the previous owner's meltdown- the balls and spindle didn't fair too well..

now you've got me wondering if they are bad or not- i took a look at the floating race previously removed. It's possible the black crap isnt into the steel itself, but i cant even scrape it off to examine if the race is good or bad.

Should I run them by the machine shop to have them cleaned/examined? or just purchase new?

Anybody gone through one of these that's gotten good and scorched?

If the balls are sacrificial as i've heard, do the races ever get trashed being that they're hardened?

-rick

[JPJP]

See if they will let you put them in the solvent tank or soak them in carb cleaner for a better examination.

From what I remember from Paradise wheels: Those races have to be perfect for those balls. A wear pattern is acceptable however. I bought new ones as I was unsure during my rebuild (SN-89).