Dyno Day results: "Your car has big problems"... HELP

[WA2FAST]

Okay, so after all of the hard work in getting everything perfect on this car to get it ready for the dyno, I finaly made it there yesterday. I finished it up on Sunday, but there was a part throttle miss that I didn't like... I tried to remedy it, but couldn't so I just figured that I would have it towed up to the shop instead of driving it 10 miles like that. I took it up there, dropped it off, and gave it to Don Walsh.

After working on the car (he didn't start till after he closed), he said that the computer is doing everything wrong. He is pretty sure that it is a meter related issue, but is going to play with it more tomorrow. He said that it was running really lean at idle, super rich at part throttle (~8:1) and super, super lean at WOT (16:1). He said that he wanted to see how it reacted at WOT and had to get out of it right away because of the A/F ratio. I asked him if the O2's seemed to be working right and he said that they looked normal, nothing out of the ordinary, the screwy a/f was coming from the meter.

He is bringing in a meter tomorrow that he knows is dead on... it's a draw through Pro-M 77 that he said he knows is callibrated perfect that he is going to put on the car in a draw through setup to see what it does.

Has anyone ever seen this before? Any ideas or suggestions?

[root]

I have not seen it before but I have read about it for sure. Sounds like Don is going to help you out and get the problem nailed down.

What MAF do yo use now?

Ian

[WA2FAST]

A bran new 3.5" Univer. He was just couldn't beleive that it was doing that. He traced my MAF pigtail down to the computer to make sure that it was hooked up right and everything (of course it was, but it was just double checking), but it just didn't add up. I am glad that he is really working with me and doing the best he can to help me out, I'm just concerned about running it draw through even for a little bit, becuase that power pipe isn't for a draw through setup and he is going to have to un-hook it and somehow get those MAF wires over to that side in order to run it draw through. Just that a lot of things are going to have to be done to "test" it with this other meter and I A) don't want to have him have to do all of that, and B) don't want to have to put it all back when he's done. He wasn't too sure about it being blow-through since it isn't intercooled, but he unfortunately doesn't have a blow through meter to stick on it. I know that typicaly a blow through setup is on your intercooled cars and draw through is on non-intercooled cars, but I have seen blow through on non cars with no problem before and if I remember, it ended up better that way anyway.

[John91coupe]

You can run a blow through setup on a non intercooled car and it won't be a problem. The BIG problem is getting a good calibration from Pro-M. I have been down that road before with them and this was when Bob Atwood was still around. They do make FU's on some of their meter calibrations and that's what it sounds like is going on with yours.

If Walsh wants to test the car in draw through make sure he recirculates the bypass air (I'm sure he knows to do this) or you will be even worse off than now.

[WA2FAST]

Yea, he actually said that when he does the draw through, he is just going to un-hook the blowoff anyway for that/those pulls.

Note on Pro-M... My buddy just got a 75mm bullet that was waaaaaaaay out of whack and his car would barely even run. His stock meter ran the car almost perfect even with #30 inj. compared to the supposed #30 75mm bullet. He took it back to him... with his cold air elbow and filter and everything to flow just as I said to... they flowed it, admidted that it was off said that it was fixed, we put it back on his car, the same problem. He took his car to them, GAVE it to them for 2 full days to get that meter to work on it... THEY COULDN'T get it to work! They are now putting a plastic 80mm and their cold air kit on as the solution. They blaimed it on the BBK cold air pipe. With all of our testing, I don't see how the pipe had anythign to do with it considering the fact that even with no pipe connected, open meter, conical filter on the meter, same results... as soon as the meter was out of the picture (stock meter, or no meter at all) the car ran fine.

Anyway, Walsh said that he went around and around for a while to get that meter as perfect as it is... that is why he is bringing it today for my car. I guess we'll see what happens... I will get a call back before I leave the office today, so I will more than likely post what is going on if I find out in time.

[WA2FAST]

P.S. He did report that before he shut it down on that pull... the car was at 3500 and made 315rwhp and 425 rwtq or so right at that point even with that funky A/F ratio. :) Good things are at the end of the tunnel I think.

[John91coupe]

One other thing that I have seen before but not sure if it applies to your situation. Sometimes a meter will be impossible to calibrate correctly because the sensor elements are broken or detached. This can happen if there has been a manifold backfire, such as with nitrous or a bad lean backfire. Those little elements are pretty delicate so sometimes a good inspection of them under a magnifying glass goes a long way.

[WA2FAST]

Doesn't matter though... the meter is bran new. I bought it a couple of months ago, but you can clearly tell that it has never been used. I haven't even had the car running but for maybe, MAYBE 10min max on that meter... mainly on idle too, the half pull was all that it has ever seen, so it's Pro-M's problem if that meter isn't right.

[WA2FAST]

Also, you can't see the filaments on a Univer... they are completely encapsulated inside and can not be seen at all unless the electronics are taken off... but even then, I will let Pro-M deal with it, it's not my problem... well it is my problem, but it's going to be in their hands if it is the meter.

[blownwindsor]

If you need a blow throw meter I have one, I have that same meter on my car and it wont run with out the chip. so i currently have a bad running car, maybe I will put my c/l mass air back on.

[WA2FAST]

Hmmmm... that may be a thought... where do you live? I never mentioned you to walsh yesterday becayse I don't know you by your real name. Did your car do whacky things because of the meter?

[blownwindsor]

my real name is anthony, and the only problem with my meter is my car wont stay running with out my chip. and I personally think i have driveabilty problems with my meter. but think im going to put the old on back on an see.

[WA2FAST]

Thanks Anthony. I picked up my meter from Walsh yesterday and he does not want to see the meter back if at all possible at all. He said that it is just no good and he thinks that there might be something physicaly wrong with it (like an air leak or bad weld or something). He wants me to look into getting possibly the Univer Plus or something that is not hand made like that because he said that it has to be too perfect for that many welds. Anyway, he said that my car was just totaly out in left field and clueless as to what to do weather he had a program in it or not. The fact that the car is 18:1 at idle, 8:1 at part throttle then 16:1 (jumping all around) durring WOT suggests that the meter is just completely hosed. I am going to call up Pro-M today and give them a piece of my mind about this and see what they have to say. I bought the meter a while back (in Nov.) but the car has only been together for a short time and only has like 5 minutes of run time with that meter so hopefully they don't give me a hard time.

[SnakeIs]

Wow, I hate to hear that man. My Univer was a little lean when first bolted on but I was able to tune it out with my EEC Tuner pretty easily. And it has worked perfect! I am using it as a standard meter now that the blower is being repaired and just shoved my K&N on the end of it and the car runs great! I guess thats the draw-back about custom hand made meters. I hope you get it straightened out.

[WA2FAST]

Did you get the 3" meter or the 3.5"? According to Don and Felix, there is a night and day difference... the 3" usaly work just fine, the 3.5" isn't even shipping right now because they are having problems with them.