Am I expecting too much?

[Jason915]

I just got finished with my install; my air pump broke replaced that now my PS pump is broke, (I must have had my belt on too tight) (Older Novi kit). But when the car was running I could get a peak of 7psi right before the factory 6250 rev limit and I must say I am not impressed with the performance increase. The car didn't miss a lick no hesitation and no bucking/surging just horse **** slow in my opinion for all of the work that I have done. I know that allot of it has to do with the fact that I cannot run anymore base timing than 6-7 or else the car will detonate like crazy and I am stuck with 91 octane fuel also I am located at 6200’ of altitude. I am going to get a boost timing control for it so that I can run more base timing. But just to give you guys an example of how the car ran,

I floored it in the first 3 gears and it almost feels like a weak turbo with all kinds of lag when its revved up it spools fairly well in between gears but this car feels like a mid-lower 14-second car.
I would say at this point the car gained 25-30 HP @ 3k+ and lost 15-20 under 3K.
A stock LS-1 would blow my doors off right now and that bothers me, after reading some of your stories of spinning through three gears after the install I was anticipating some actual gains. What should I expect after I install a BTM compared to what I have explained? Anyone else out there at higher altitude that could give me some tuning tips? I have an article from 5.0 Mag and they installed this identical blower on a stock 91 GT before the install they put it on a dyno it put 180HP and 270 FT lbs of torque, from my ET, and Trap speed that is about what I am putting down when it was all mostly stock in this mountain air. After the install they put it back on the same dyno and it put 270HP and 330 ft. lbs. of torque down with no other modifications, just the Paxton kit right out of the box. That’s 90 hp, compared to my 30~. A good friend of mine just bought a 98 Z28 with a 6 speed if I can’t beet him after some minor tunning and a BTM I am going to barf.
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[5150 LX]

Jason, I don't know what to tell you. The altitude is probably a fair factor but something else just isn't clicking from what you described.

You really may want to consider looking into a dyno tune session after you get the BTM. I know it's more money but it may very well be necessary for your situation.

I can attest that with mine (when I had a whole car) would rip street tires loose on the freeway in 3rd when the boost was hit. The addition of the F-150 pulley made it ever more fun with the boost coming on sooner.

Something is amiss, we just haven't found it yet.

[468LC]

Something else to consider jason. Try running straight timing. Set your timing with the spout out to around 22* and then leave the spout connector out. See how that drives. If it don't ping then go a little more. I ran my car to a 12.45 on a stock long block with that kind of timing.

Really though I would put the car on a dyno to see where you stand and then report back. Sounds like something is off.

[Jason915]

Now the car is sitting again until I buy a new PS pump then I'll tinker with it some more. 5150LX was that with a stock longlock? This car is a good running car it never smokes or makes any noise it's in great running shape a perfect canidate for this blower, I just have to work out the bugs thanks for the input, if I can't get this thing to run as hard a I want it to run after a good mechanical tune I will find out where to go for a dyno tune. I keep you all posted in how I make out

[5150 LX]

Mine was a stock short-block including cam with a set of box-stock TFS heads, Track Heat intake, full exhaust, 4.10's, yada, yada, yada. It was fun before the blower but after the blower it was pretty insane to drive on street tires.

[fanglemeister]

Jason, I agree that something is amiss. Make sure your ignition system is up to snuff, fresh cap & rotor, good wires and plugs; might try closing up your plug gaps more if not done already, maybe go to a step cooler plug, might allow more timing.

If you are running the kit FMU you may be running rich, although if you have a partially blocked-up fuel filter it can cause a lean condition under boost even with the FMU attached. Also might try cleaning your MAF meter element with some brake cleaner.

[showstopper2]

the blower is not going to be super efficient at 6200Ft. get off of Mount Everest and then the air will compress much easier. probably not enough oxygen for a good clean burn. have you had serious detonation problems with the car stock and with the blower??

sounds like you have the same problem guys in high humidity like my brother have. his car see's 15lbs on the dyno with the big cooling fan blowing and at low altitude and low humidity, but at the track the car was definately not under full power with over 80% humidity that day. tough to compress dense air too!!

[Chuck]

I have to go with Steve (468's) theory here.

I have not personally tried it but I am going to soon.

Setting yor initail timing to 22 degrees and pulling the spout is a great idea.

If you are only running 6* initail right now your are probably getting 22 total any way.

I think that BTM's are great but if they fail its gunna cost you at minimum a set of head gaskets.

I use a BTM now and I run 15* initial with the BTM set to pull 1* per pound of boost.

I would save your money and just set your initail up to 20* try it out then if it doesnt detonate go up a degree and keep going till you feel that it is not going to detonate.

[Chris_H]

Jason, I feel your pain with the altitude. Although I am only at 4,100ft I know what thin air is like, and how bad it sucks. They say we need less fuel up here, and I agree, but my car doesn't. I bumped my fuel up from 40psi, to 45psi 2 weeks ago at the track and picked up a .1 and 2mph above my best run. What size injectors are you running, and what fuel pressure are you running at? Also, how far of a drive would it be for you to get down to a lower altitude where you don't need an oxygen mask to breathe?

[Jason915]

I am using autolight 24's gaped at .035, and fuel pressure w/o the vacuume is 40psi, the car don't miss or anything and it has a good tune up on it. I will tinker with it some more this week and try some of the things you guys have recommended and I will keep you all posted. Thanks for all of you input.

[BlownNotch]

Something is definitely wrong. My 91 started out stock with NOVI 1000 and was impressive. I then added the F-150 pulley, Aeromotive Reg., GT40 Iron Heads, Edelbrock Intake Manifold, Shorty headers, converted from an AOD to a T-5 and was truly impressed. My last stang dynoed 323/340 at the wheels and this close to stock motor with the NOVI 1000 feels a lot more stout for sure. I'll post numbers on the dyno at the end of this week. LS1's shouldn't be a problem!

[regattacoupe]

going to 23's might the detonation some too. What injectors are you running?

[5.0 Hatch]

I know exactly what you going through... my car picked up a horrible 6mph with the novi coupled with a 2.75" pulley and f-150 pulley and powerpipe. Since then i disconnected my fmu and it seems a bit more frisky now. When the humidity drops here i'll give it one more try.

Go to the track and get a baseline and see where you at, it may suprise you. Then get a tune if your not happy and try again. One thing to keep in mind is those ls1's are sucking the same air yours is so you should still have no problem beating them.

btw, i run 24 degrees spout out... that helped alot on the bottom end.

Good Luck, some have better luck than others.

[DSBLK93GT]

My cousins car is a DEAD stock motor..from the TB to the oil pan and has.. 165,000+ miles on it. All it has is a 73mm MAF, headers, h-pipe, catback nad the base 5lb kit Novi. He was running a best of 13.98@100 without the SC and ran it one time with the SC and got a 13.5X at 105 is super hot weather. I was only running 106-108 that same day with my car and I've trapped 11 before. His car was NIGHT and day with just the 5lbs of boost. I have the timing at a little advanced with spout in. It's at about 11-12* rigth now with no detonation at all. He raced my friends 2000 SS Camaro that has over 345 RWHP and the SS could NOT pull on him at all, 3 races in a row. Needless to say the SS will now have a STS turbo kit. Hehehehe!

So, I'm 100% sure it is a 12 second car with just the 5lbs of boost. Not too far off my car at all!