Windsor Sr. vs 6037s

**Shaker666** · 07-08-2004, 01:06 AM

I've got an '89 5.0L running 8 psi of boost from a KB 2200 Blowzilla. Currently, the heads are 60cc Edelbrock 6037s w/1.90/1.60 valves, stock out of the box. I'm going to pull the heads to repair another issue, but I'm considering installing a set of 64cc World Products Windsor Sr. heads instead of the 6037s. They're fully race ported, the bowls and chambers have been polished, 2.02/1.60 valves, and adjustable valvetrain. The 64cc chamber also lowers my static compression from 9.8:1 (L2488F pistons) to something a bit lower (9.3:1?). The only drawback I see is weight and the fact that the heads are iron. What do you think?

**regattacoupe** · 07-08-2004, 01:26 AM

What are the flow #'s on the world heads?

**fanglemeister** · 07-08-2004, 09:57 AM

The Windsors might flow more air at higher lifts but I'd wager the Eboks will outflow or at least keep up with the Windsors at low to mid lift figures.

The deciding factor for me is that an alloy head has the same detonation resistance as an otherwise similarly configured iron head with 1 full point less compression; if heat-induced knock is already a problem then the 6037s are ONLY the way to go, the iron heads will only make the situation worse. You can run more timing or more boost on pump gas with the alloy heads than with the iron heads. My $.02

**Shaker666** · 07-08-2004, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by regattacoupe

What are the flow #'s on the world heads?

I've long since lost the flowbench sheet. It definitely honks though... out of the box these heads have a 200cc intake runner volume whereas the 6037s are only 170cc. Exhaust ports are better as well on the World heads. The chamber size is also larger (64-65cc vs. 60cc), so I was thinking that compression might be slightly lower to increase resistance to detonation.

**blueoval92** · 07-08-2004, 12:53 PM

I have 6032's on my 306, and i had them on my 302 for 7 years now. i've had zero problems. on a 302 based engine it's a velocity thing, IMHO 2.02 heads with big runners is a 331-351 stroker's head, i've made killer power w/1.90 and 170 runner w/ just exhaust and bowl work. just my .02 cents. detonation will be stomped on w/correct fuel and tune. :D

**Shaker666** · 07-08-2004, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by blueoval92

I have 6032's on my 306, and i had them on my 302 for 7 years now. i've had zero problems. on a 302 based engine it's a velocity thing, IMHO 2.02 heads with big runners is a 331-351 stroker's head, i've made killer power w/1.90 and 170 runner w/ just exhaust and bowl work. just my .02 cents. detonation will be stomped on w/correct fuel and tune. :D

Keep in mind that the Blowzilla makes this 302 act like a 408.

**fanglemeister** · 07-08-2004, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Shaker666

out of the box these heads have a 200cc intake runner volume whereas the 6037s are only 170cc. Exhaust ports are better as well on the World heads. The chamber size is also larger (64-65cc vs. 60cc), so I was thinking that compression might be slightly lower to increase resistance to detonation.

I agree the exhaust ports are probably better on the ported Windsors, which is important on any blower motor. I understand the temptation to go bigger, and depending on what pulleys and blower speeds you are planning, they just might be better overall for your goals. Please don't take any of my comments as criticism, just trying to discuss your thoughts on the topic.

FWIW I ran both combos thru Engine Analyzer 3.0 software with same Cobra intake, same E cam, same exhaust, same blower setup, and the Edelbrocks came out on top: 351hp/353tq vs 373hp/365tq. This was at about 9-11 psi boost. The Windsors I used in the sim were 218cc Int/52% efficient, vs 170cc Int./50% efficient Eboks.

If your goal is to build a 6500 rpm motor then the 200+ cc Windsors might be the better pick, but that Cobra lower intake will have to be way ported or let go, it is already smallish for the Edelbrocks, by up to 10-20 cfm per port. If you are planning to shift up by 6000 rpm then 170cc heads are close to ideal.

Regarding compression and detonation resistance, this is a very important factor with positive displacement blowers - your intake air temps will run hot just cruising along the highway, as well as at WOT.

A chamber size increase from 60 to 64 cc will drop CR from @ 9.6:1 to 9.15:1 or so, +/-. The general rule for iron vs aluminum is that the alloy head will act like an iron head with right around .75 to 1 point less CR, so, given identical chamber shapes and quench area, etc, the alloy heads at 9.6:1 are as detonation-resistant as iron heads at 8.6:1 to 8.9:1. What causes knock and/or detonation is the air/fuel charge in the chambers reaching 800 degrees before it is uniformly ignited by the ignition system, if you run water/alky injection the iron heads wouldn't be as much a borderline factor, but without that, at 9-11 psi you'll have to run the iron heads pig rich to keep them cooled down.

**blueoval92** · 07-08-2004, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Shaker666

Keep in mind that the Blowzilla makes this 302 act like a 408.

yeah what he said. :D VELOCITY

**fanglemeister** · 07-08-2004, 02:51 PM

Erk! just picked up on the Blowzilla factor after posting, I was plugging in the numbers for a KB1500. Disregard everything I said <duh>. Well, not really, but it does tighten things up quite a bit. The EA program is now telling me at 18-20 psi or so, the Edelbrocks will make 458hp/432tq, vs the Windsors making 461hp/424tq. I'm sure the Cobra lower intake is corking things up for the Windsors big time.

EDIT: bumping TB from 65 to 75mm, bumping intake runners from 1.67" to 1.78", bumped power for both combos up into the 485 range, the Edelbrocks still hold an edge by a couple of HP.

Disclaimer: no computers were injured in the running of these simulations. heh heh...

**Shaker666** · 07-08-2004, 04:01 PM

I don't consider any of these posts to contain any malicious criticism... I am rarely offended by forum posts and my objective is to lucidly determine which route to take, so that being said, I appreciate the constructive criticism.

Maybe I should consider porting, polishing, and otherwise opening up the Edelbrock heads instead of fooling around with the iron stuff. The motor does spin up to 6500 RPM+, but not on a very regular basis. It's a street/highway motor. The World heads are certainly nice units and I thought that they would be more durable as well...

**blueoval92** · 07-08-2004, 04:02 PM

LOL :D dissclaimer. just a few horses, but how much added weight? not to mention other issues.

**blueoval92** · 07-08-2004, 04:06 PM

sounds like it already is a good combination, doing what you said would be even better,no added weight ,detonation,just TORQUE and POWER.

**RdRunnr** · 07-08-2004, 10:19 PM

I am partial to the 6037's just based on my experience with them. I made 520 rwhp through the AOD and went low 10's with them out of the box.

**Shaker666** · 07-09-2004, 03:14 AM

Well, I finally blew a head gasket tonight, so I'm going to go ahead and TRY the World heads before going back to the Edelbrocks. The car's a weekend toy, so it's not too big of a deal at this point. Good thing my truck's still running!

The only thing I skimped on when rebuilding my motor was the deck... it was off by too little for me to justify decking at the time. Boy, I'm regretting that decision now!