How much is timing worth on blown cars?

[Chuck]

Speedytang is right, there will definatley be a loss in low end power locking the timing at 20*, But in some cases its the only cure for mid range pinging if you dont have money for a DFI or custom chip.

Also the EEC will add 16* more timing to what you have you initial timing set to at WOT. The EEC can add much more that that at light and medium load in the mid range.
This is what gives you the extra low end power.

[musclestang89]

Did someone say timing. :D I ran 32 degrees total with 110 race gas , TFS heads, 12psi S-trim. I ran with that for about 1 year :blob:


But I don't suggest anyone doing this :p

[PNY PWR]

I've finally got mine to take 8* initial, was 6* for a while. I tired locking it out and it ran like crap.

[regattacoupe]

I had a Tweecer and it was headache. I'm gonna get an Intercepter II and try my luck with it. Speedy, I've got one i'm bidding on right now. Still up for a lil tuning and thrashing this spring? There is alot of power in timing but you have to be careful not to get carried away. If you have a loud car you can't always hear slight pre-ignition so I run some 112 octane in the tank and let it rip when racing.

[86merc]

Here is the timimg the EEC uses at WOT. I hope this helps you.

[86merc]

BTW, Why not just buy a boost retard? You can find used ones for $150 if you look. That would solve your lazy bottom end with a locked out timing method.

[Krwy]

BTW, Why not just buy a boost retard? You can find used ones for $150 if you look. That would solve your lazy bottom end with a locked out timing method.

The lazy bottom end is taken care of, by the 3.73's :teeth:

[speedytang]

Boost retards that are on the market (Crane,MSD) are not accurate at all. If you can find a Ricer timing unit that is Digital Display that would be better but then your at the price of a PMS/Interceptor.
Brent how about May 29th at Norwalk. I will schedule that day for Play.

[regattacoupe]

Brent how about May 29th at Norwalk. I will schedule that day for Play.

Sounds like a winner. thanks :D

[Krwy]

I heard a few different answers from a few different people. I told a few people that I was going to up the timing to 20*, and leave the spout out. Imdiately they all shot down the idea. All saying without the spout, the cars runs like crap, and it controls a few things that use vacuum. So the spout does...?

[NothinButNotch]

From my understanding the spout does nothing but keep the computer from controling timing. And lets just put it this way, if it does happen to control more its nothing that is going to hurt your car. The worst that can happen is you pull it out, set the timing to wherever you want it, and it runs like crap. If you dont like it, for whatever reason, lower your timing back down and put the spout back in. Its at least worth a try in my opinion.

Pulling the spout helped me find a timing issue I was having. My car runs just fine at part throttle and idle. It does have a very slight hesitation at part throttle when its cold but it may have the issue even with the spout in. Now I will say some of my running OK probably has to do with the fact that my custom SCT chip still controls the A/F (which we have locked at ~11.4) so the car doesnt run pig rich, but I did run the car for a while with the chip out and the spout out and it still ran good.

Give it a shot, you wont hurt anything, and at least then you will know if your car runs better with it out or until you can get a tuning device.

[Krwy]

Yeah, I'm definantely going to bump the timing up tonite to at least 18* and lock it there. I'm not worried about a custom chip right now, maybe just a MSD BTM, but I'm going to be putting together a 306 within the next 8 months.

[regattacoupe]

Well since you're gonna do a motor swap soon, if you go to the track put how ever much 110-116 octane in(you can mix with pump gas but i try to run it down first) And try locking the timing @ 24-28 and HOLD ON! Again since you're gonna build a new motor. :teeth: Shouldn't hurt anything though i'd take it slow at first,

[blown5oh]

"The Hawk - Timing can be worth big power both down low and up top.....a couple degrees cam easily make a 40rwhp difference."



That's awesome news if that's true.....we had to knock off 3 degrees of total timing because of a oil leak (blown bearing in 1k head unit).....hello 500rwhp! :teeth:

[fanglemeister]

Krwy,

If you are going with a tweecer then you won't need the retard box, you can setup the WOT ignition curve to retard inside the eec. Or you could use the BTM to control boost-referenced retard and just use the tweecer for fueling changes. But a good strong ignition amp is always a good idea on a boosted engine - I like my Crane HI6 but the MSD is very popular as well.

Notch, the spout plug OUT disconnects eec control from timing, it defaults to 10 degrees or wherever you set it to on the balancer. With the spout plug IN the eec takes over timing control. Any time the throttle goes wide open, 2.71v + [base tps V], the A9L-type eec goes into WOT mode and follows a preset timing curve which is as follows:
WOT_ADVANCE_VS_RPM # WOT spark Advance vs RPM
( 16383.8, 26 ) ( 5000, 26 ) ( 3500, 22 )
( 2600, 22.5 ) ( 2150, 21.5 ) ( 1800, 18.5 )
( 1000, 8 ) ( 0, 8 ) ( 0, 8 )

It interpolates the inbetween values, so the WOT timing ramps up from 22 at 3500 to 26 at 5000 in the oem application.

The SN95 cars are more complex, they don't have the same simple WOT mode, they mix and match timing numbers from 3 different load tables, and it gets sticky with BIG MAF and injectors because those throw a monkey wrench into the load calculation. One of the best things the tweecer etc do is readjust the load tables to more accurate numbers. Most of the eec tuning people diable at least one of these tables or else they set all 3 to be equal values.