Timing with 13-14 lbs of boost?

**NothinButNotch** · 11-11-2005, 12:51 PM

I've got a 3.25" pulley I plan to swap on very soon and I am wondering how much timing I can run, with the spout out and locked, and be safe? I have an SCT chip with my A/F ratio already set and I know, normally I would be able to control the timing through the chip as well but we have an issue and it will be remedied soon.

Anyway, if I am running 19-20* right now on 10-12 lbs of boost with no detonation and 93 octane if I back it down to 16-17* should that be enough? Thanks for any input, Ryan

***speedytang*** · 11-11-2005, 02:59 PM

Should be enough to test, I myself still run 21 total at WOT at 15psi with 91 octane as a base because certain stations don't carry 92-93 octane. You need a PMS tuner because your car must feel like a dog under 3000 rpm. I run 30 degrees at timing till about 5psi then let the timing come down soft with the boost. I hate to say this because it is expensive but nothing beats using a dyno to get the fuel and spark figured out.

**NothinButNotch** · 11-11-2005, 03:21 PM

We setup my A/F via the SCT chip on a dyno the problem is the particular base program that is on this chip doesnt seem to want to accept timing changes (ie it still reverts back to the stock timing tables and obviously detonates). So right now the chip is regulating my A/F ratio but my timing has to be locked via the spout being removed. I hope to get back the dyno very soon with the new database on the chip and be good to go.

This 3.25" pulley is just laughing at me though sitting on my work bench. :) So I just want to make sure if I swap it on this weekend where I would be safe to leave the timing locked. And you are right, at part throttle or lower RPM's the car is definately not as strong as it should be and it eats fuel (or more than normal anyway). As I said though, I hope that to be remedied soon.

Thanks again, Ryan

***speedytang*** · 11-11-2005, 07:20 PM

If you get a PMS you can setup the unit in about 30 minutes and I myself make over 500 rwhp and still get over 21 mpg mixed driving. I run 3.08 gears still and pull a 0-60 @ 3.2 seconds launching at 2k rpm on stock type tires no drag radial. I have no weak rpm power areas and the PMS does things a chip never can. Look around and get a unit for under $500 used and forget the chip.

**flyin_hawaiin** · 11-12-2005, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by speedytang

If you get a PMS you can setup the unit in about 30 minutes and I myself make over 500 rwhp and still get over 21 mpg mixed driving. I run 3.08 gears still and pull a 0-60 @ 3.2 seconds launching at 2k rpm on stock type tires no drag radial. I have no weak rpm power areas and the PMS does things a chip never can. Look around and get a unit for under $500 used and forget the chip.

what kind of things does a PMS do that a chip cant?

**NothinButNotch** · 11-12-2005, 12:39 AM

I actually prefer the chip and once we switch the database out it will work great. Thanks for the input but I have less than $500 invested in the SCT chip and once we fix this issue it will be just as effective, if not more, than a PMS. Everybody has their own preferences though. Thanks, Ryan

***speedytang*** · 11-12-2005, 12:58 AM

You must keep going back for a tune with a chip and so I know you will have more than $500 in the chip and only have 10% of the features.
Download the manual:
www.efisystems.com
This company has been around since 1988 building these units.

**flyin_hawaiin** · 11-12-2005, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by speedytang

You must keep going back for a tune with a chip and so I know you will have more than $500 in the chip and only have 10% of the features.
Download the manual:
www.efisystems.com
This company has been around since 1988 building these units.

you must have missed my question... what can the PMS do that a chip cant?

**NothinButNotch** · 11-12-2005, 08:39 AM

Once the A/F ratio is set, which I can also do myself but chose to have a "professional" do instead, I can change all the parameters myself with software and a laptop. My buddy has the software on his laptop and even a wideband 02 sensor we plug up and then we can essentially tune it just like it was on a dyno, minus the numbers. On a foxbody you have a timing table for idle, part throttle, and WOT. For the newer cars I believe you have a lot mroe control and you can record realtime data from sensors throughout the car. Its great stuff and I plan to stick with it. And I'm not saying the PMS stuff isnt good either, I've just chosen another route. Thanks, Ryan

***speedytang*** · 11-12-2005, 10:12 AM

Did not miss the question but it is alot to type when you can read the manual yourself. The one main difference is it is boost sensitive. I am over 500 rwhp and that is with nothing fancy and my car does not need boost to run hard since I am at full timing till I reach boost. When the weather changes so can my tune in minutes, add cam, heads, anything I just go to the handheld and in less than a minute everything is ready for the additional power. Chip you must reprogram for any changes and if it is out of the range of the parameters during normal driving your dealing with a sluggish car till the parameters that it was tuned at come back. Chips are not cheap to keep and if you like to play with cars everytime you make a change you will need a tune. Always choices and some choices are better than others.

**sneakypony** · 11-12-2005, 02:21 PM

Umm...what? Your saying if the weather changes you need to get your chip burnt again? You don't have any clue who asked you that question do you? Do some research before you tell him about tuning..........LOL

**NothinButNotch** · 11-12-2005, 02:31 PM

Lets just leave it at I am happy with what I have and dont plan on switching anytime soon and you obviously like what you currently run and like it. So to each there own and thanks for the input/info.

Anybody else running 12+ lbs of boost on a similar setup have any info about their max timing etc?

Thanks, Ryan

**Chuck** · 11-12-2005, 06:33 PM

With my S-trim I used to run 13#s with 21* of timing at full boost. This was on 94 octane with about 9.5:1 compression. I would start at 18 and work your way up slowly.

**flyin_hawaiin** · 11-12-2005, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by speedytang

Did not miss the question but it is alot to type when you can read the manual yourself. The one main difference is it is boost sensitive. I am over 500 rwhp and that is with nothing fancy and my car does not need boost to run hard since I am at full timing till I reach boost. When the weather changes so can my tune in minutes, add cam, heads, anything I just go to the handheld and in less than a minute everything is ready for the additional power. Chip you must reprogram for any changes and if it is out of the range of the parameters during normal driving your dealing with a sluggish car till the parameters that it was tuned at come back. Chips are not cheap to keep and if you like to play with cars everytime you make a change you will need a tune. Always choices and some choices are better than others.

I am not interested in getting in an arguement on here, but you are SORELY mistaken.... its actually the EXACT OPPOSITE..... the chip can do about 100x more then a PMS can.. I have tuned hundreds of cars and thats not 100... I have gone 8.57 @ 158 with a PMS so i think i understand how it works..

Please do some research on SCT software before you make false statments like you did above..

Also, MAF equipped cars can compensate for weather changes through the MAF.

thanks and have a great day
Bob Kurgan

**NothinButNotch** · 11-12-2005, 10:23 PM

Well put Flyin... I'm not trying to argue or even downplay PMS stuff I just know that the SCT chip/software is very capable.

Thanks for the timing info Chuck.

-Ryan

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