Ball Drive vs everything else?

**ncook** · 08-02-2006, 05:47 PM

So how do ball drive blowers stack up to other blower technologies?

**NMNOTCH** · 08-02-2006, 06:38 PM

What beats the wine of a geardrive.

**ncook** · 08-02-2006, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by NMNOTCH

What beats the wine of a geardrive.

The wine of a ball drive with a bad output shaft?

**NMNOTCH** · 08-02-2006, 08:34 PM

Ouch I would stick with the vortech, have ran them since 95 with no issues, Once apon a time I had a powerdyne, damn that was a mistake:violent:

**F=MA** · 08-03-2006, 09:15 AM

It's by far the most proven supercharger drive technology in the world. Powerdyne found out how hard it can be to design a supercharger drive and their reputation still suffers for that.

That said, because the Paxton/McCullough ball drive is so proven, its limits are well known. When additional airflow is demanded, as in a VR-4 app, supplemental oil cooling is required. Kept within its limits, its a quiet, utterly reliable, inexpensive-to-service, self-contained system that delivers the goods.

Obviously, there are newer and better choices out there now, if you want to buy new. Both the SQ-trim and the Novi 1000 offer far more headroom than the standard SN series but, that does come, a bit, at the expense of streetability with mildly modified motors.

I find the SN on my mild 250 horse 302 a total blast.

That's my $.02 :happy:

F=MA

**BlownT/A** · 08-03-2006, 11:40 AM

ive really been enjoying my sn-2000. welll when things are right......... you know you get the occasional blow by and not enough fuel up top :)

**NMNOTCH** · 08-03-2006, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by F=MA

It's by far the most proven supercharger drive technology in the world. Powerdyne found out how hard it can be to design a supercharger drive and their reputation still suffers for that.

That said, because the Paxton/McCullough ball drive is so proven, its limits are well known. When additional airflow is demanded, as in a VR-4 app, supplemental oil cooling is required. Kept within its limits, its a quiet, utterly reliable, inexpensive-to-service, self-contained system that delivers the goods.

Obviously, there are newer and better choices out there now, if you want to buy new. Both the SQ-trim and the Novi 1000 offer far more headroom than the standard SN series but, that does come, a bit, at the expense of streetability with mildly modified motors.

I find the SN on my mild 250 horse 302 a total blast.

That's my $.02 :happy:

F=MA

F=MA What possible streetability issues have you seen with an s, sq , or a novi 1000.

As far as inexpensive to service there is no service on an oil fed unit. Just change your engine oil like normal.

Personally I have seen and heard nothing but problems with self contained or ball drive units on or off the street. Thats regularly driven on the street to. Not just a weekend car that goes in and out of the garage to get dusted off.

***speedytang*** · 08-03-2006, 06:00 PM

I build more power with my VR4 then when using a Novi1000 or Novi 2000 at the same boost numbers and the Novi 1000 at 14-15psi was 85 degrees hotter on the intake side which caused me to drop 65hp at the same rpm as the VR4 because of dropping 8 degrees of timing to stop detonation. Novi 2000 was easy making 15psi but it also had a hotter intake temperature by around 25 degrees and cost $4200 when I tested it. My choice would be the NOVI units because of the bracket design. I have had no real issues with my VR4s since owning back in '88. Running hot motor oil thru the supercharger is not the best method. Pro charger has proven that using Paxton 50 year old method.

**sneakypony** · 08-03-2006, 07:44 PM

The most reliable blowers out there are NOT self contained. Email me if you doubt this and I'll tell you a little story.

**NMNOTCH** · 08-03-2006, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by sneakypony

The most reliable blowers out there are NOT self contained. Email me if you doubt this and I'll tell you a little story.

200% agreed I don't know of any self contained turbos running around:laugh:

**ncook** · 08-03-2006, 11:33 PM

So whats "self contained" refer to?

**F=MA** · 08-04-2006, 12:01 AM

"Reliable" is a highly charged word. The definition shifts, depending on the individual consumer's demands. Most people want a totally trouble-free, maintenance-free toaster car. Those of us into high performance, have different definitions and expectations around reliability.

As with all things, if kept within its design limits, the ball drive'll live. I think over 50 years of survival of the design speaks to its capability. If you blow it up suddenly, it's not because it's self-contained or "unreliable", it's because you didn't maintain it or you pushed it too hard.

As for my streetability issues, to get the amazing headroom into the 1000 series Paxton, I've noticed a lack of lower end/midrange punch compared to the SN. Now, this probably isn't a big deal on an HCI equipped, zippily geared, revvy car but, it's noted on a milder application like my stock cam, stock head, stock manifold car. The N1000 does not seem intended for this market.

Now, the other side of this is, of course, the SN runs out of wind if you try to run it on an engine with big airflow demands. There's no free lunch.

F=MA

BTW, an entire series of self-contained turbos were built in the recent past, just for OEM snowmobile use. Now, comparing turbo centre sections to ball-drive units is pretty apples to oranges, as I'm sure you're well aware, Notch. :)

**NMNOTCH** · 08-04-2006, 02:28 AM

Just bustin your chops F=MA. As I am a firm believer and vortech preacher What I can say is that everything has there place and is application specific. There is no point in putting a huge supercharger or turbo on a stock head, cam intake, vehicle, or vice versa.

The big blower battle of which is better than the other will probably be one that will never end and is primarily based on preferences I assume.

When I choose a supercharger for an application, the efficiency of the supercharger is one thing I look at, secondly I want to make sure that I will be keeping the impeller RPM between the surge and choke lines of that blowers compressor map given the rpm the engine will see at peak rpm and after shift rpm. The supercharger must meet the airflow demands of the engine as boost is just backpressure, but mass quantity of air is power.

As far as experiences with self contained units, they have not faired to well with the ones I have used or have seen used by others. I have never seen anyone who ran any vortech ever break or have issues other than belt alignment with these units and for as far as AIT temps I believe this depends on the blower vs application rather than the Brand of supercharger itself. Of coarse that would be non intercooled obviously. Also take a look at vortechs strict testing standards and you will see why they are the most popular street unit period.

p.s. I am actually aware of the tests done using self contained turbos on snowmobiles, but they will probably stay there because they will need the snow to keep them cool enough to ever live. They are probably testing these things in alaska or something. :signs: hmm! vortechs new v20 series blowers have provisions to be ran as self contained units:teeth:

**NMNOTCH** · 08-04-2006, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by speedytang

Pro charger has proven that using Paxton 50 year old method.

This is funny isn't paxton and vortech now one. Yes they still advertise seperately but they are owned by one. :) Hence the new brackets for the vortech's. :teeth: