P600b Weird Noise

[pablo]

OK, GUYS...here is a question that most of you have heard before, but I need to clear it up for my peace on mind.
i have a p600b supercharger.
a) it makes a noises form idle up to 1000 rpm
b) one of the noises is a metallic rattle sound, i think it might be because the gears inside the blower that are straight cut and also my idle is not too good, it is not a bearing failure noise becuase I can can distinguish the noise.
c) I also have another noise, kind of like the noise of a bad sterring pump, also at idle up to 1,000 rpm.
These last one noise, i really can not tell if those are bearings or what....
Now,...
for what I heard form ATI this is common to the P600B.
and also from other users they told me that ATI es the most quiet supercharger and the others brands make more noise.
So friends I am lost here, becuase I really dont want to destroy my supercharger.
I live outside USA, in Costa Rica, and to send this supercharger to have it checked it would cost me about 400 bucks just in transport it round trip.
And if ATI comes up with a : TO BAD YOU NEED MAJOR OVERHAUL"..for about 800 bucks....then for sure i will better get a new one instead of rebuilding that supercharger.

My lasts questions are:
a) does some one has the chance to overhaul or service the internals of this supercharger at their own? changing the bearings, etc?
b) does anyone knows any other source for parts, like bearings?
c) does any one have the torque for each bolts and nut to rebuild that P600B?

If I can get those parts from ATI and also the rebuilding process like the torque of each bolt, I am sure I can get it doen here in my country, also this would help me a lot to reduce shipping expenses and many more.

So please guys, send me all the help and comments.
Thanks.
pablo

[SnakeIs]

Oh boy.... ok here goes. I had my P600 blow up (bearings) with about 8k miles on it. You can NOT buy the bearings or seals from those crooks! They will not sell you a single part. I found thru my research that they used a really cheap a$$ bearing manufacturer for the P600's and the company has since went belly up. I have looked high and low with many great resources thru my job (delco remy usa) and I can't get the internal oil seal anywhere! It is a custom seal made just for ATI and you will have to send the blower in to them to get it replaced, it goes for $52.00!! The front seal is a common piece that you can get. The bearings can be found through a company called ESI Bearing (www.bearingsdirect.com) You will need part# 6203TBR and 6204TBR. These are a very high quality phenolic aerospace grade bearing and is quite costly. (2 bearings cost me $150) but its still cheaper than ATI. Hope this helps you guys out some, if you have anymore ?'s just let me know.

Donnie

[WA2FAST]

Great! Thanx for the information on the bearings and where to get them. As far as the seal goes, I am wondering if you can JUST send them that piece of the blower to have them press that in... maybe they would do that instead of making it mandatory to send the blower in and have ALL service done there. Who knows. It would be worth asking. If I am not mistaken, I think I have heard of someone possibly on the corral having ATI send them the seal kit.

[SnakeIs]

I begged an pleaded with the service manager and he would NOT send me that seal, so best of luck! I talked them into JUST sending the case in for the seal replacement and they argued and argued with me about doing that, but they finally agreed after I got a little pissy with them. The only seal he said he could sell me was the front one. They have had the blower for over 2 weeks now and still aren't done with it. I was told this week but I haven't seen anything yet...

[StangQuest]

Hey SnakIs, where there any indications that your head unit was about to go out or was it kind of out of the blue? I just want to be able to know what to look for before catastrofic failure.....my head unit probably has 20K miles on it or at least that a good guess......I'm the third owner of it.

[SnakeIs]

Yes, it did get an abnormal "growl" to it towards the end but I didn't pay it much attention because the blower was less than a year old and didn't have hardly any mileage on it. I basically just ignored it because I have read all the posts about how noisy the P600's are and my car is lound as hell anyway.

[pablo]

snake is:
well you sure answered my question better than ATI.
THANKS A MILLION FOR THE BEARINGS TIP.
but i need your help,
a)does these bearings need some kind of special tool to install them, or maybe any tolerances when you install them.
b) do I have to first change the seal and then the bearings? or can I send the part where the seal goes and later I can change the bearings my self?
I ask all of these because I really dont know trhe internals of the p600b
Have you looked at the seal size, internal and external diameter?
Do you have the numbers?
I might be able to get a replacement or equivalent.
Thanks for the help my friend.
best regards
pablo

[SnakeIs]

Pablo-

A- no you will only need a good hydraulic press and many jigs/fixtures to properly press off the bearings and impeller. Everything is pressed on with Loctite so it is not easy!

B- You can replace the front seal (behind pulley) without disassembling the head unit, but the internal seal will require complete disassembly to replace (behind the impeller)

I sent the seal into ATI with the blower so I do not have it here to measure, but if they return it I will post the measurments. I sent the dimensions of that seal into every seal manufacturer we have (I work for Delco Remy Int.) and none of them have seen this type seal or have made it.

[pablo]

Snake is:
well you have covered all my questions again..
Man you should get your self a JOB at ATI....*LOL*
Please if you get your hands over that seal post the diameters numbers at these forum.
Have you tried to send that numbers to the the aircraft parts or seals manufaturers?
Thanks my good friend I owe you one!!!!
Best regards
pablo

[SnakeIs]

No problem, glad to have helped!

If I get that seal back I'll post everything. But they are pretty stingy with the specs at ATI so I doubt they'll let me have it. You should have heard them when I told them about how cheap their bearings were and that I can get bearings that are 5 times better than what they use for much less than their typical rebuild.. :)
With my machining experience I have built $30,000 BMW engines and they don't seem to think I can rebuild my own blower.....

[WA2FAST]

It is understandable though, because if they bend for one person, they have to bend for everyone... and plus, if they start letting other people work on their products, they are liable for having to warranty and repair other peoples mistakes with their product. I don't like it any more than you do, but they take all of the BS out of the loop by only working on their units themselves if you think about it.

[pablo]

SnakeIs
Thanks, by the way making a 30K BMW engine sounds like fun....
mmm....a BMW with a F4 procharger....how about that for a fun drive...*LOL*

WA2FAST
You are right, ATI needs to protect their products, but if they can only lower the prices.....350 bucks for a seal change!!!! give me a break...

take care you guys.
pablo

[SnakeIs]

I respect their ways too but they are so high for maintenance and rebuilds! it is unjustifiable in my book, especially on a blower that is less than a year old!

[WA2FAST]

Oh, I totaly agree... how come your warranty doesn't cover that if it's less than a year old? Even with the standard warranty (1 year), they should be fixing that baby up for free. I think that their prices are a little outrageous as well, trust me. I strongly believe that they are too expensive and that their turn arround time should be better too but what can you do.

[SnakeIs]

Well, I placed my order for the blower 13months ago even though the blower was installed on the car only 6-7months, they said it was out of warranty and Time didn't matter because I put the 2.55" pulley on it.