newbie questions...please help

[bmnlsc]

Per my sig, the only thing I need to add for my questions is that I unfortunately have the "hyper-pathetic" pistons.

1) How safe is my set up with adding a Vortech S-trim and all its components?

Please know that I have searched and written on car forums (fordforums.com, superchargersonline, etc), but am still confused, as there are those that say I need to run the S-trim with higher than 24lb injectors or expect to burn out one or more pistons, besides blowing the head gaskets. My gear head buddies say the same thing. However, when talking to Superchargersonlines (on the phone), they are saying my setup is fine.

2) Will the Vortech SC-Trim be a waste for my setup, due to the amount of flow my engine has?

The problem is that I would like to go with the Vortech S-trim, but not at the expense of blowing up something within my motor, which is new and has less than 5000 miles.

3) If you could respond, could you please provide a detailed reason(s) why the Vortech S-trim will or will not be a problem for my setup?

Lastly,

4) Is there anyone else out there that purchased my crate motor from FMS and is running a supercharger?

Thankyou for taking the time to read my post and thankyou in advance for responding.

Bill

[bumblebee03]

I think you should be fine with your setup, 24 lb injectors will be fine if you are pushing about 8lbs of boost,, just run it a little rich at first, and then fine tune it,, also dont have your timing too advanced and you should be fine,, Bee

[bmnlsc]

Bee,

Thankyou for responding. Is there anyway I could get you to respond in a little more detailed explanation? This is the first motor I built and my first supercharger to install. I was initially ordering the SC Trim with the setup I have, as two or my buddies have it, however, when placing the order with Superchargersonline.com and talking with their rep, as well as a rep from Vortech, I was told that my engine flowed too much for the SC Trim and wouldnt see any significant gains. Therefore, the S -Trim would be the best way to go.

There are those that will say the SC and S Trim flow the same (per vortech's webpage), however when speaking to Vortech and superchargersonline, they state otherwise. They say the SC Trim is not as efficient as the S Trim, due to the internal gears and impeller setup. With the SC Trim you will actually see approximately 6 - 7lbs of boost with their 8lb pulley. With the S - Trim, you will see all 8lbs with a 8lb pulley. I have to think they know what they are talking about...and perhaps they are saying this with regards to my engine setup.

I wouldnt mind just hooking up what I already know works (SC Trim), however, as with speed, you always want more. And I am no exception. I am just wanting to be safe. Again thanks for your response.

Bill

[EDS_5_OH]

You will be fine with the 24lb/hr injectors and either the SC trim or the S trim. The S trim will give you a little more time to grow when you decide to up the boost and get more fuel.

Please note: You must run an FMU with the 24's. I would ditch the 24's and step up to the 42's without an FMU and get a custom tune.

Just my .02.

:)

[IPPO]

I went through the same issues and research as you. I have hypers and alum. heads and vortech told me I needed a S-trim instead of SC-trim due to less restiction reduced boost. I purchase S-trim, install it with my 24#injectors and it makes 10lbs of boost, not 7 - 8 like vortech predicts. So now I obsess about running lean and blowing the engine. I run 10 degrees of timing and set the BTM to #1 on 93 octane pump gas. I take it to the dyno mostly to see what the airfuel is and it turns out to be very rich, down as low as 9:1 at midrange rpms. So now I feel a little better but don't care for the 90psi of fuel pressure with the FMU under boost. I end up going to 42lb injectors, a recalibrated mass air, a larger 255hp intank walbro to compliment the 255hp T-Rex and have a chip burned on the dyno at JMS for a conservative 11.5:1 air fuel and still make 434rwhp on a Mustang Dyno at 5500rpm. End result, I couldn't be happier.

You can have success with hyper pistons and 24lb injectors. My observation is that folks blow head gaskets and burn pistons because they are careless or greedy with too much timing, not enough fuel or both. And the only way to know for sure is to run a wide band O2 on the dyno or just install one in the exhaust and monitor it.

Follow my S-trim install and tune at these links on this board.
http://www.superchargerhelp.com/showthread.php?t=4456
http://www.superchargerhelp.com/showthread.php?t=4589
http://www.superchargerhelp.com/showthread.php?t=4765

I received a lot of help and good advice from folks on this board and had a happy ending by running my first open track event last weekend. The car never missed a beat and the water temp never exceeded 190 - 200 and the oil never exceeded 240.

[bmnlsc]

First I want to thank those that responded back to this thread. Trust me, there were many days and nights of debates, to include a couple of arguements (LOL). Well, the choice, after the debate, on the injector sizes and what pulley to run, were the Bosche 38lb Injectors and the 6 rib pulley. I decided to be extra safe.

IPPO - thanks for your response and history of your buildup, especially since you have the same pistons and heads setup as I do. However, let me ask you something, what cam are you running with? The kit I ordered was the S-trim with two different setups (6 rib and 8 rib, as well as two diaphrams for the FMU). I was running 90psi of fuel pressure, which made the car run like **** after 3000 rpms. Highway cruising was fine, however, if trying to race someone or launching hard it would be sluggish as hell past the 3000 rpm mark. Once I replaced the diaphram, I was running 60psi of fuel pressure, which now after 3000 rpms, I am launching like the space shuttle. My boys are telling me to switch my cam, thus the question.

The vortech went in smoothly. Here are the pics.







Again thanks for the responses.

Bill

[IPPO]

I am running the infamous B303 cam with 1.7 rockers so lift is at 0.510. It's been in there for 10 years and for me it works well both on the street and for road racing. The engine makes over 400 lb-ft of torque from 3000rpm and all the way to 6100rpm. Many will argue there are better cams today, but I have plenty of power down the straights and have not yet found a reason to replace it.

I've attended 3 SCCA Solo I track events to date with much success. No problems with heat or power. I do run 30% race gas (114 octane) when on the track just to be safe . The plugs read perfect. Again, I couldn't be happer.

Now that I am carrying more speed down the straights, I need to start looking at a brake system upgrade.

[bmnlsc]

Hmm, I am wondering now why my car was running sluggish. Your engine is a 302 right? IF so the only difference I can see (so far ) by your responses are that you have 1.7 rockers. Would that cause the sluggish effect on my car after 3000 rpms with the 90psi of fuel pressure?

By the way, do you have your cam retarded any amount of degrees. I have mine retarded 4 degrees. My mechanic says that isnt good.

Thanks,
Bill

[regattacoupe]

I would have to agree with your mechanic on retarding the cam. Do you have any tracktimes before the blower with it set like this? The Comp extreme cams that everyone and thier grandma run have a 4 degree advance ground in them. Also what disc did you have in the FMU when it ran sluggish? 60 psi might not be enough fuel pressure with 24's. I would certainly have to try to steer you torwards bigger injectors.

[regattacoupe]

:) Nice setup btw and welcome to the site!

[IPPO]

Hmm, I am wondering now why my car was running sluggish. Your engine is a 302 right? IF so the only difference I can see (so far ) by your responses are that you have 1.7 rockers. Would that cause the sluggish effect on my car after 3000 rpms with the 90psi of fuel pressure?

By the way, do you have your cam retarded any amount of degrees. I have mine retarded 4 degrees. My mechanic says that isnt good.
Thanks,
Bill

Engine is a 306 and cam is installed straight up, no advance or retard. Car is definately not sluggish. And I'm not running too much timing -- 28 degrees total timing and retarded to 18 when under boost thru the chip. The chip runs more timing at idle and low rpm -- makes it seem like there's an aluminum flywheel in the car.

[bmnlsc]

I would have to agree with your mechanic on retarding the cam. Do you have any tracktimes before the blower with it set like this? The Comp extreme cams that everyone and thier grandma run have a 4 degree advance ground in them. Also what disc did you have in the FMU when it ran sluggish? 60 psi might not be enough fuel pressure with 24's. I would certainly have to try to steer you torwards bigger injectors.

Unfortunately I did not bring the car to any tracks prior to the vortech install. I am not sure which disc I had, it wasnt listed in the packaging list from Vortech. I purchased a kit from Vortech that came with two different setups, one for the 8 rib setup (8lbs) and the other with the 6 rib setup (6lb). The FMU probably had the disc for the 8 rib setup. I actually went with the 6 rib setup in the car, as I ran into clearance problems with the 8 rib.

I was running 90psi with 38lb injectors. It was sluggish as hell after 3000 rpms. AFter changing to the other disc in the FMU, it runs fine now at 60psi. It made 7 pounds of boost already. More and likely I will be purchasing another cam, but I like the fact that IPPO is running fine with his B-cam setup. Decisions decisions.

Bill

[bmnlsc]

Engine is a 306 and cam is installed straight up, no advance or retard. Car is definately not sluggish. And I'm not running too much timing -- 28 degrees total timing and retarded to 18 when under boost thru the chip. The chip runs more timing at idle and low rpm -- makes it seem like there's an aluminum flywheel in the car.

My guy set the car up with 13 degrees of timing and we have the BTM set at 2 for now. Not sure about the specifics under boost. If I blow the motor, I plan on going the 306 route.

Thanks for the response,
Bill

[regattacoupe]

38lb injectors with 60psi of pressure sounds about right. If you decide to re-degree the cam and have the motor tore down put in a more blower friendly cam. Like one of the comp grinds with 540ish lift and 218*@.050. Those AFR's love lift. ;)