How much is timing worth on blown cars?

[NothinButNotch]

I'm relatively new to the blower game (just got my Novi 1000 and car running right a couple of weeks ago) but I was wondering in general what is timing worth on blower cars? Is there a point in most combo where you can add timing and maybe still not get any detonation but not get any more power either?

I am currently running 17* total timing with the spout out with no detonation. From some of the posts I have been reading it sounds like I could probably take it up another 2-8 degrees depending. Would raising my timing be worth a "measurable" amount of HP or should I just leave it at 17* and play it safe?

I plan to hit the track ASAP with my M/T DR's as soon as the weather permits and I will probably play with my timing there to see if it makes a difference in ET or MPH but I figured I would go ahead and ask here and see what everyone has to say. Thanks for any info, Ryan

[Chuck]

On a blower car timing is everything. Thats where all the power is made. I got away with 21* with 13#'s on my strim set up but I think its rare to be able to run that much on pump gas.

I would put some about a half tank of 110 in it and set the timing at 23-4* and have some fun.

Remember a half a tank of race gas is cheaper than a pair of head gaskets.

[regattacoupe]

Race gas+timing=very big power gains but too much will squeeze gaskets..

[NothinButNotch]

But how about without race gas? I always run 93 octane and while I may later on this year add some 110 and up the timing just to see how low in the 11's I can go for now I'm just curious what a general "safe" timing is for ~10 lbs of boost and 93 octane. Thanks again for the info, Ryan

[speedytang]

10psi, 93 Octane, Ported E7 heads and 24 degree of total timing. Your heads will be what makes the biggest difference on total timing. The more timing you can get away with the better the car runs on the bottom end to get those Drag Radials moving in a hurry.

[regattacoupe]

Here's a good example. I was running 115-117 mph/24* total timing before I did the 8" crank pulley. After I never touched the timing and I went to 123-124mph. Thats alot of mph for 3 psi increase! I have no doubt that timing was 50% of my mph gain. I tried some 112 octane on the street and 28* with no spark knock and LOOK OUT!! It was a monster! ;)

[NothinButNotch]

Sounds like I will definately be playing with my timing! But as I said above, I may wait just for safety sake and b/c at this point I am still ellated at the power the car has now. :) I want to leave some room for improvement/fun down the road without swapping blower pullies. Thanks again for the info, Ryan

[TheHawk05]

Timing can be worth big power both down low and up top.....a couple degrees cam easily make a 40rwhp difference.

[PNY PWR]

Interesting thread, I have been wondering about this as well.

[Krwy]

How can you run that much timing and boost and not ping? Spout out timing is at 8*, I push about 7psi on 91octance and ping like a motherfcuker anything past 3000rpm. Could it be winter gas? During the summer I treated the car like a red headed step child with no pinging.

[86merc]

I had my car on the dyno a few months ago. The car started at 16 degrees of total timming at 13#. Bob Kurgan added on degree and it responded with a 18rwhp gain. He added another degree and the car picked up another 20rwhp. We stoped there untill I do the Dart block upgrade.

So yes the dyno showed timing can make a big differance. With 93 octane and with 10+# of boost I wouldn't run more than 21 degrees of timing. Getting a good A/F ratio around 11.5 will help you a lot too.

Winter gas has different additives and has been known to cause issues.

[Chuck]

Krwy,

We are talking total timing. If you run 8 initial that would make for 24* total timing.

Have you ever tried setting your timing up to like 20* initial and leaving the spout connector out?

[speedytang]

The problem I have had with cars running the spout out and setting timing to 20 degrees for a example is that it is a total dog down low. Below 2500rpm I am running 34 degrees of timing and then start taking it out under higher boost numbers. The best money spent is on a PMS/InterceptorII that controls timing and fuel with boost.

[Krwy]

Krwy,

We are talking total timing. If you run 8 initial that would make for 24* total timing.

Have you ever tried setting your timing up to like 20* initial and leaving the spout connector out?

How did you come up with 24* total from 8* initial? Does the spout add timing?

No I haven't. It was on my list of things to do soon. I adjusted the fuel pressure up to 41psi to see if it could cure the problem, it would still ping, but not till ~4500rpm. Soon as my tax return comes, MSD 6ALBTM and a Tweecer.

[NothinButNotch]

I dont know exactly how much timing the computer adds or when in the RPM band but it adds 16* somewhere at WOT so if you have the base timing (timing read on balancer when you have the spout out) then 8 + 16 gives you the 24*. But if you leave the spout out it locks your timing at whatever you set it at on the balancer. I was having issues with this too and even with a custom chip still had some pinging. But as I said in my first post I now have my spout out and the timing locked at 17* but plan to up it sometime soon. Hope that makes things a little clearer.